PREMIUM: JokeRace: The Onchain Contest Platform | David Phelps

Bankless Nation, have you heard of Jokerace? Jokerace is an on-chain contest platform with a big, big vision for what it can be. In 2024, we're all suffering for a lack of apps in crypto, and Jokerace stands out as a fun, user-facing social contest platform, aka an app, to do almost anything in the world of crypto. Community contests for contributions to protocols is probably like the most familiar mechanism that uh Jokerace helps create, but on chain contests can truly be anything Web3 American Idol, fashion contests, social rewards, game shows, or even just like basic user acquisition and marketing opportunities for startups and projects.

On the show today is David Phelps, one of the founders of Jokerace, who explains Joker to me from the bottom up. So whether you're a community member, a project founder, or someone with a creative itch, you'll be able to understand how you might be able to leverage Jokerace to have some fun and make a little money along the way. So let's go ahead and get right into the conversation with David Phelps of Jokerace. Bankless Nation, I'm here with David Phelps of Jokerace. What's up, David?

What's happening?

Great name, my man. Uh, what's joke race?

Dave Dow. Dave Dow Maxi. That's right. Dave Dow. That's right. We'll know we've made it when when uh Dave Dow's using us. Uh Joker is a on-chain contest uh protocol.

What does that mean? What is it? What is an on-chain contest?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So contest is really simple. There's there's two phases there's submission and voting. And so in submission phase, people can submit entries in a voting phase. People can vote on their favorite entries. And then if you want, you can add rewards onto this and you can reward the winners of a contest, right? And so within that framework, you can imagine everything from like grants processes. So like Arbitrum um like uh Polygon have used us. Ooh, I love this. Love this uh thumbs up. Arbitrum like Polygon have used us for like grants processes. So it's like people submit their grant applications, a jury votes in their favorite. Yeah, you can imagine like award ceremonies. It's like

People submit music and like, you know, producers vote on their favorites, or like you have like decentralized Oscars and everyone's voting on their favorite films, right? Um, you can do application processes, you can do hackathons, right? All of what I just described are like what I would call submission-based contests. In those contests, you have like a bunch of people submitting in the project that they're working on, their favorite meme, like a tweet that they wrote, and then you have a jury that's voting on their favorites of those. And so, like, those kinds of contests are really good for I would say especially building reputation. Like, you imagine that like designers every week are like putting up their designs and a jury of designers is voting on their favorites. By the end of like 15, 20 weeks, like it doesn't matter if you won any of those contests, all the votes that you got are showing you are a major designer, right? And so that becomes like the best source of truth of like who the great designers are. These are the people that like every protocol should be airdropping, right? Those are the people that everyone should be hiring. Um, and so you can build talent communities that way too, through these kind of like submission-based processed processes. The other side though is like imagining like a voting-based contest. And and and a voting-based contest is like, it's like maybe there's only eight entries and then there's tens of thousands or millions of people voting on them. And so, like any game show that you've ever seen is kind of like that, right? Like if you imagine American Idol on chain and eight people are competing and they're all singing against each other, and everyone is watching from home and you have millions of people all voting, that's like a voting-based contest. It's like Eigenlayer did like to decide what LST they were gonna do through us, they ran this like process where like they had eight LSTs all competing to try to get votes to be supported by Eigenlayer, right? And that's a really cool one because it looks on the surface like a governance contest, but it's actually a game show.

It is like it is eight contestants, and then they are going to their community and they're marketing Agenlayer and being like, here's why Agenlair matters, this is why you gotta support it, here's why you gotta come out and vote, right? Um, and so like really anything from like kind of the future of governance to like Love Island on chain is like constitutes as like what I would call a voting-based contest. And what it can get cool is you can combine these, right? You could have like a hackathon where a jury is picking like 10 favorite projects, right? But then you do a second contest, which is a voting-based contest, and now it's Shark Tank. Those 10 projects are now all competing for against each other for the votes of everyone, and they're getting visibility on a live stream, right? Like that too. And so you can start an art contest, right? You could have like a jury pick their 10 favorite artworks, but then you put that to a second voting based contest, and everyone's like picking who their favorite artist is. Um, and so there's a lot of ways that it can just be used for marketing, for virality, and um, and just a lot of like fun incentives to really build community kind of like grounds up uh as well.

Okay, so it sounds like the there's already some of this activity going on natively in this space. Like Eigenlayer had to choose uh some certain LSTs no matter what for like onboarding LSTs. They just elected to choose uh joke race. They could have done it some other mechanism. What about like joke race? It makes it better. Like, what are the properties that Jokerace has uh that uh facilitates a better like outcome for what some protocols or contests are looking for?

Yeah, I'd say there's kind of two broad ways to answer that. Like one is the gamification piece, right? The fact that you can kind of gamify this. So it's like in in Eigenlayer's case, like they could have just taken the one with the biggest market cap and been like, that's the LSTV support, right? But that would have been contentious and centralized, and like other LSTs would have gotten angry and then one of work with them and wouldn't have gone to their own communities to try to get support. And so like turning it into like a community-based process, like besides just being like a little bit more credibly neutral, like is actually really helpful, right? To get like everybody on board and for them to kind of relieve themselves as saying we made the decisions because like it's community. And what actually happened was the one that had the biggest market cap didn't win because they didn't activate their community to support. And that was really important for Eigenlayer because then they found out, oh, they wouldn't have actually come and re-staked with us. Like they weren't out to support us. But these other ones went to their community and actively got everyone to support. They actually will re-stake with us. And so it actually gave them a better outcome as well in deciding who they wanted. So it's like the kind of gamification piece of like, you know, you turn everything into a game show and like things are competing. Like that's really fun. Like podcasts use us to like decide what guests they're gonna have on. And yeah, it's really helpful for them to get like community feedback about who their community wants, but it's actually the process of that game of them competing for votes, builds a lot of traction and virality for them as well. And so I'd say gamification is like one piece. And the other the other piece is it being fully on-chain. And so we're live on over 90 chains. You can deploy to really any EVM chain that you want. And this gives you all sorts of benefits because like what I was, you know, describing before about like you have that designer community, and like whoever's gotten the most votes across 15 contests is like a great designer. Like that is just aggregating on-chain data. It's just treating the fact that on-chain data is like publicly available and anybody can use it becomes this like huge advantage, right? And so it's really helpful for building reputation, it's really helpful for building rewards, having programmatic rewards that way. But where it really becomes cool is that like it means that we're not just an app or a protocol. Like anybody can build on top of us because they can ingest the data in fees from these on-chain contracts and use it for their own services. So, like, we have services now building on top of us that are building extensions, and those are just extending the features functions of a contest. So, like Bellow, for example, has like dashboards for every single contest. So you go on our site and you tap like the Bellow link and you're gonna get a full dashboard. And so for any contest that you're running, you're now getting data analytics of like who are the people who participated, like what NFTs did they tend to hold, like what are the Warcast communities that they're part of, what are their associated Twitter handles, like how do I message them, right? Like all of those kinds of like details about like, you know, who your community is, we don't have to build that. Like if we were a web 2 product, we would have had to spend like two years building all of that out to give people data analytics. But because it's fully on-chain data, it just plugs directly into Bellow. They built they spent a couple days building that on top of us, and now anybody gets those insights. And it's it and that also builds like all of these, you know, new like revenue possibilities. Like we had a podcast use Bellow and they figured out, oh, like, you know, 20% of our users are Xereon users. Let's get Xerion to sponsor us. And they were able to leverage that data to get Xerion to sponsor. So like the open data of a blockchain uh is just so powerful, uh, I would say as well, and like really letting people like build on top of us. And it gets really fun when you think about fees. Like you'd have DeFi extensions where like people are like building so that the fees that they earn from a contest are then going to buy back a token or being like used to provide liquidity. Um, so those pieces and I'll add a third two, which is you make money by creating contests through us. People pay to submit and vote. And so this is actually a money maker, and like it's an ability to build a whole you can build a whole no code on chain business on top of us.

Okay, so there are two themes in there that I want to like pull out and identify. Like one one of the perks I think you're illustrating, like why this is better, why this mechanism is better, is uh you get like community legitimacy as a result. This is this platform is a way to like elevate the voice of a community. It's a megaphone for a community. It's like a way for a community to like express their interests, express their desires, literally express themselves. And so, like where one protocol might be literally the larger community, uh larger protocol, but with a smaller community versus a smaller protocol with a larger community, all of a sudden this is like an um a uh an equalizer, uh which favors the community over like um like large protocols. And so you like this is like a community benefit primitive. Uh and so like that that's like one theme that I'm that I'm understanding. And then the uh actually, yeah, just like riff on that for a little bit.

Well i look, uh you know, you can design contests however you want. So like if you want to allow list certain you know, only ten people to vote, that's fine. If you wanna let anybody vote, you can do that too. But in anyone if you let anyone vote, right, y you have to charge them because otherwise you would just have random people creating random accounts giving random number of votes and then we can sibly

Act, right? Like

Right. So what you do is you do like, you know, 10 cents per vote. But this creates a game, right? So it's like we did like a um I threw one that was like Kendrick versus Drake, right? If I'd been smart about how I created Kendrick versus Drake contest, I would have like put all these incentives in place. I would have been like, you know, whoever wins, you're gonna be able to mint the meme coin for them with like every vote that you put on them equaling one token. I put zero incentives, right? I just was like, fuck it, I just want to see what happens. And it's like you put that out there, and people are spending fifty dollars to buy up votes in a contest that isn't even close. Like Kendrick is clearly winning, and people just wanna like they just wanna like show that they just want to make sure that.

Kendrick wins.

Yeah, they just want to make sure Kendrick wins, even though Kendrick is clearly already going to win, right? Like, um, so like it gets really interesting where it's like you can imagine, like, I don't know, Bankless could like start doing debates and they you could live stream it and have people all voting from home on like who's winning the debate, right? And you know, it's like you put Solana against uh, you know, Algorand or something, and it's like everyone's choosing uh who they want. Like, um, and so you can, yeah, it it it is this ability to gamify it. And I I do think like if you really want to design it around like quality community uh engagement, those are like the submission-based contests, like really being able to like let people actually express themselves, have their voice heard by like submitting original materials. Like we have a lot of like protocols have used this for like meme contests. Create the best meme, the best meme, we're gonna give you $5,000, right? And it's like, yeah, you're incentivizing people to actually have their voice heard. And like even if they lose that contest, they're getting votes that are on-chain attestations that will be meaningful long term. It's like that protocol can still pull up all the data from that contest and be like, these are the people who are meaningful to our community early. They were creating memes for us, and we have on-chain proof for that, right? Um, so if you want to do like, you know, a more wholesome contest like that, you can. And if you want to do a totally D gen contest where it's like, yeah, whoever pays the most money to try to get, you know, Kendrick to win, like, let's go.

You can make a bunch of money that way too, right? And like uh and you can make it really fun. So, you know, what those have in common is I would say like the gamification piece. Like it's just gamifying the this this stuff so that you know it's fun and it's fun on you know one dimension or another.

Okay, cool. So that that was the first like primitive uh like theme that I that I wanted to pull out. The other one is um just like is user acquisition and understanding uh the the community like from the data. This was a big theme in 2021. Like, why are NFTs so powerful? Like, oh well, like as an artist on Spotify, does Taylor Swift have any uh data about her fan base? Like, no, no, they don't. Totally. Uh and so the this is a like uh Joe Crace is a potentially a conduit between the data of a community, the makeup, the genetic makeup of a community, if you will, and then the actual like protocol that that community like surrounds. And so this is like a way for to like pass information and between community and protocol and like allow for like a more of a high fidelity conversation between community and protocol. Like that's kind of like the other thing I'm understanding.

You know, imagine you do a fashion contest and it's like, okay, everyone's gonna vote from home on like, you know, what their favorite style is. Like, you know, what's your favorite shirt in this fashion contest? Or like, you know, uh who styled them best, right? And um, you know, who's your favorite model in the runway in terms of what they're wearing, right? And it's like you do this fashion contest, and it's like, you know, if you vote for the winner, you'll get a chance to buy that outfit or something like that, right? Let's say.

Okay.

Um

On the surface, you're getting like this great marketing contest where it's like it's a game show where people are all watching. You know, they're watching, you know, some version of like RuPaul where it's like they're voting on their favorite fashion and they're getting to participate and it's more interactive from home. And this like continues a lot of trends we've seen over the past like 20 years of like fan bases being more interactive, right? And so it's just like on the surface, yeah, you're getting this great marketing like campaign and um ability for people to participate and you're making money off of it. But like where it gets really exciting is the data, right? Because it's like, yeah, if you start going in and you see, oh, all of these people own Pudgy Penguins NFTs, it's like maybe, maybe we need to do some Pudgy Penguins branded designs for our fashion. Like that is something that is clearly resonating with the audience that's participating here. And so we need to bring them in or maybe have them in our store. But the other thing is like just voting preferences are probably the richest data you can get on what people are into. Um, and so it's like if people are just voting for this shirt, yeah, maybe they can buy the shirt as well when they vote it and you can get this kind of like impulse by action. But like you're also just getting data on like what they are into. And so that's helpful for you as a business. It's like, okay, I know this shirt is popular among our consumers based on the fact they voted for it. But it's also meaningful is because it's like, okay, this one person voted for this really obscure thing that no one else liked, but I can target them in the future. Like I know that they're really into this. And because it's interoperable data, it's like you can start building off of this in all sorts of ways, where it's like other fashion brands can see what people are into and be like, okay, you know, I want to build for this audience and this segment, and I can see like what they like. And like long term, you can imagine if you want to build like a dating app, it's like this is the most valuable information that you could have for a dating app because it's like this is, you know, over hundreds of contests, you're expressing your tastes and preferences. And so, like, if you can aggregate all that together and say, hey, you should meet this other person in the world, they share the same tastes and preferences as you. Like they're into the same stuff that you are. Like, that's really, really powerful too. Right. Um, and so just yeah, having like interoperable data, I think is like it can be this really cool thing as well for people who are choosing to submit and play in this as well.

Is that data um owned by the contest operator? Or once that data exists, is it just free, it's just like free domain data because it's all domain.

Yep, yeah, you're publicly expressing yourself, right, through a contest.

But like I I guess in in theory, if like there went we wanted to like make this like private, you could kind of close down the data between just like uh using ZK. Z, you know, ZK. You could just close it down to like the operator of the contest.

It's a little bit trickier to do ZK stuff with anything that's like fully, fully on-chain because like the actual vote is an on-chain transaction that you are and so you're signaling what you voted for. And so like even at some level, like if you're able to like let's say hide the metadata of like what the thing is that they're voting for and you don't know what that is, you can still see that X party voted for B party, right? Um, which is still valuable. So I mean the way I think about this is like this is public, like this is stuff where it's like you're participating in an exhibitionist way in a public for you know forum about you know what music you're into and what fashion you're into, you know, or like who you want to win this game show. Um it's stuff that you would want to be part of your public profile the same way you want your pre taste and preferences to be public when you show them or you know share them on Twitter. I wouldn't y build contests around private private preferences in the first place because that's not something you should be doing in public, probably anyway.

Is there a notion of like user acquisition here?

Yeah, so uh you know, one one way I think about this a lot is like so crypto's really good at user acquisition. We've found this over and over again. And the reason that crypto is really good at user acquisition is financial incentives are just the most powerful customer acquisition tool you can get. Like being able to promise people money is really, really strong. But there's a flip side of that, which is like crypto is really bad at user retention because people immediately, once they have the money, go to the next place in their mercenary, right? And they don't care. And so, like the way I think about this is there's kind of three incentives for a really good contest. And those are like financial incentives, reputational incentives, social incentives, right? And like the easiest way to understand this is like a poker table. Like you go to a poker table and it's like someone is there to make a bunch of money. They're there for the financial incentive. Someone is there because they want to be known as a winner in front of everyone else. That they're there for the reputational incentive. Some people just want to have friend, you know, fun with their friends, and that's the social incentive. And so it's like when you can combine these together and you can get all of these going, it gets really strong. Like crypto the game is just a really good example of people who come for the finance, but they stay for the social, right? Like they come because there's this promise of all this money, they quickly realize there's no way they're gonna win it, but they stay because they get to vote together and they all get to like participate in this voting process for this like on-chain survivor, right? And so, like, you know, the the way I think about it is like web two won on social incentives. And like we know how powerful social incentives are for retention and how how well those can keep people in a space, right? Web three, like crypto is one on like financial incentives, and that's really good for acquisition, but it hasn't been good for retention. And so the question is like, how do you combine these things together? Like, I almost think about it where it's like, I don't know, the the analogy I've been drawing is like financial incentives are like an affair. It's like all consuming and powerful, and it just like dominates your life and it's all you think about. And then the moment that it starts going bad, you're out.

There's just nothing lasting about it, right? Social incentives are like a marriage. It's like, yeah, you don't think about it all the time. It doesn't consume your life, you know, but it is something that is long-term meaningful and develops over time. And so it's like, I think as a space, we need to like be able to get pe acquire people through financial incentives. Like, we shouldn't lose that. Like, that's clearly a huge, huge benefit to this space. And I kind of hate when people like try to talk like they're above this. It's like, no, this is a financial space, building on financial rails, letting people make money. That's a whole promise of like why we're building this on-chain and what you can enable. It's like you could have Reddit and everyone made money. That's kind of like what I think we're doing, right? So you want the financial piece, but you have to have the social piece to keep people there. And so, like, if anything, I would think about is like, yeah, you can use this for for you know uh customer, you know, acquisition um to get people out, making memes, you know, being part of you know your experience and learning about your community and watching live streams and participating and learning about projects. But like where it gets really powerful is retention. It's like if you have people coming back every week to like watch American Idol on chain or Love Island on chain, and they are building their own sub-communities of fans where they're trying to aggregate enough votes to be able to get their party to win, like that's where it gets really, really fun. Um, and I think like, you know, the really powerful communities that have been built through us, it doesn't really matter who wins in a given week. It's the overall data after, you know, 10, 20 weeks of doing it. Like Andrew Hong has just built this data analytics community showing like who the best data analytics people are because they've continued to earn votes week after week after week after week. And it's like that retention is like really, really powerful because it builds a much more meaningful record. And it's a lot more fun to actually build a social community over time than it is to do this as a one time thing.

Right. Okay. So really just hold our hand here about how Jokerac actually creates like social dynamics, social incentives. And it's the uh it's just the idea like this isn't there aren't one off contests, like companies, protocols, startups, entities can just like recurringly use contests, and that kind of creates like the social milieu around a protocol.

Totally. And I mean, let's be honest, like this is this is the major thing that we need to be focusing on as product builders right now. Like, is you know, I think we've built a really good financial tool. And it's like really being able to build a strong social tool, especially in voting-based contests, is really important. Like we just enabled anyone can vote, and that's really what opens up this space. Because submission side is not that social. Like you're usually just submitting your own entry, but the voting side is very social. It's where a bunch of voters come together to try to work together to get their, you know, Kendrick to win, right? Um, and so like being able to build out chat, live stream, you know, like all of those pieces, I think is just really important to imagining like how people can be working together, yeah, on a recurring basis and forming communities um almost as teams, right? Where it's like you want your team to win. Like, I don't know, we can set up a contest, you know, that's like a David Ryan and then run that. And you can imagine the Bankless community can start creating David and Ryan teams to try to get their party to win.

Oh, that's how you end the Bankless podcast.

Exactly. Exactly.

Uh is there a notion of an attack? Uh have you guys like been attacked or has contests been attacked by like people trying to sibel or anything like this or any learning lessons that you've like developed over the years?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We definitely like um before we turned on monetization, um, botting was an issue. Uh, since we turned on monetization, it really is not. Um, what's what okay, what's cool about this is like, you know, there's a minimum fee that you can set for people to submit into a contest and to vote. Um, and then you can set that higher if you want to. Um, and so again, like the point of this is like this is a moneymaker for people who are like creating contests through us. Like, you know, we want communities to actually be able to monetize in a way where like people are paying in because it's fun to participate and they can earn. Um they can earn anything anything from points to you know airdrops, token distributions, um, you know, financial rewards. So, you know, just having people pay in means that like you're not it's pretty bad for bots. Like, you know, most community engagement tools to date are very good for bots. Like, you know, they participate in a road action and they automatically get rewarded, and so then they try to farm that. Um, here it's like you only are earning if people are voting for you, right? And so it's not really to a bot's favor to try to do this. But the beautiful thing is like if you set that one of those contests and a bunch of bots participate and you can delete their entries, then you're still making money off of them. So like you can still monetize the bots, right? Uh if if they feel like they want to, you know, they want to engage in this thing. Um, but yeah, overall, like um, I would say, yeah, part of the really fun thing is we don't see that behavior because because you're like, you know, having to pay to vote or pay to submit, um, like it really prevents it. And it means that you really want to engage in a way that you actually think you can win. So you don't just want to perform a road action under the assumption that you automatically get paid. And so hopefully, like the real goal here is this actually solves a lot of the civil issues. Like, if you use us for token distribution, and like now you're actually sharing your token with the most high quality people in your community who actually have had impact, right? You're not just sharing it with bots anymore. And so, like, if anything, I'd say like we're kind of a solution to the to the bottom problem.

Amazing. Um okay, so uh if there there are there are two like scenarios here. So listeners want like like the listeners right now to this podcast want to go use joke race. Uh they could just like go to the website and like check out some of the contests. Uh but there's also another path of like uh one of a listener here is also a community of a particular project startup protocol, and they want that particular project startup protocol to go use joke race so they can be a part of this. Uh so like walk us through the the call to action of like how does each one of these people like go use joke race? Like you can go to the website, check it out, or like what what should you do if you if you're um on the other side.

I'm gonna give I'm gonna give two other things you could do too. One is you could create a whole new company through us. So like that's no code. So like if you want to create game shows, right? And you want to create the bachelor on chain, you can just use us and you just you know use on lonely uh like to live stream and you're good. Like that's your stack and you're done. Um and so like you know, it you don't even need to have a protocol right now. Like you could start creating stuff from scratch. If you want to create an on-chain product hunt, that could be a whole company that you could create through us, right? You want to create like a citizens journalism like you know, bounty platform where you know everyone's competing every week um for like what's gonna get included and and you're putting up bounties for like you know, people to surface information, that's a whole company you could build through us. So that that's one thing. The there is another thing you can do too, which is you can build extensions on us. And so you can actually, because we're fully on chain, you can start building like the stuff I was describing. You want to build like a module where you know, for every contest, the the earnings that you get from that are all buying back your token. Like that's something you can build uh on top of us, right? Um, if you want to build a prediction market on top of us, it's like you can now build that so that like people are betting on who's gonna win in a given contest, and you don't have the Oracle problem that you've always had with prediction markets because it's fully on chain, it verifies the outcome. I can't build that because uh that is not legal in the US and I you know I'm supporting that, but like someone else in another country. Someone else elsewhere.

Yeah.

Right, right. You could go and do that. Right. Uh and so like, yeah, these are these are the options. So yeah, you can go to our site and uh, you know, we feature contests on the front page, you can play there. Um, there's a big button that says create contest. It takes about two minutes, three minutes to do this. Um working to bring that down to about 10 seconds. Um, but right now it takes you about two, three minutes. You need to know description, you need to know timing, you need to know who you're allowed listing if you are at all, and maybe you're not. Um and that's it. And then you can add rewards pool onto it afterwards if you want to create it. And if you want to build extensions on us, um we have uh FAQ, and I'm so proud of this. The entire FAQ for how to build extensions on top of us is one paragraph long, because that's how simple it is.

Definitely thinking like a uh like a dev. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. How uh if Bankless were to use this, do you have any advice or ideas for us? How how would you want us to use um use Stroke Race?

Okay. So so one is like you could let your community nominate like who should appear on the podcast. Like who do they want to see? Right. Like that would be a cool one. Another one is you could do awards. So you could be like at the end of every, you know, let's say season, you're like, what was your favorite episode? And then we're gonna give them the special, you know, bankless credential award. And like that's incentivizing maybe people to participate and listen and try to compete. And then people are going out to try to get votes as well. And it just builds virality, right? And you're getting all that data too. Um personally, the one I would like to see is debates. Like I would love to see debates where it's like it's live streamed and everyone is like watching and voting from home on like who they think is winning. And it's like getting close and it's like you're trying to support your team, and it's like, um, especially when when you can really tap into tribal dynamics, you know, if you can do

Like, I don't know, Bitcoin versus Solana. Like, you bet you're gonna have people who are gonna be watching that and all like going in to vote for theirs to try to win, right? And so just turning it into like that kind of like live live debate, I think would be like that. That for me would actually be the most fun thing to do.

Beautiful. David, is there any uh last message, last tone that we haven't unturned or any click call to action you want to leave people with?

Uh check it out. Follow us at uh at Jokerace underscore IO on Twitter. You have any questions, just shoot us a DM on Twitter. Um that's great. If you create a contest and you want it featured, just shoot us online too, and and we'll try to feature it as well. And yeah, if you want to build anything, you want to build a talent community, you want to build the prediction market, you want to build game shows, you want to build the debate, you want to build on chain product hunt. Uh like a lot of my focus now is like thinking, yeah, I really want this to be like the no code future for people to build on chain businesses and make a frankly make a ton of money by letting people have a lot of fun. And so like I'd love to be in touch too, if um, you know, you want to reach out to me. I'm at um at divine underscore economy and my DMs are open too.

Cool. We'll get all of those um uh Twitter handles and links and all that stuff in the actual tweet and also the show notes. So Dave, thanks for so much so much for coming on the show and explaining joke race to me.

My pleasure. Thanks so much.

Bankless Nation, you guys know the deal, crypto is risky, you can lose what you put in, but hopefully we're making it a little bit more fun here today. Uh but we're headed west. This is the frontier, it's not for everyone, but we are glad you are with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.