Crypto in Ukraine | Alex Bornyakov, Deputy Minister of Digital Transformation of Ukraine

Well, my advice will start from what we realized in Ukraine at some point. We realize that there's a huge blockchain community. There are a lot of people that use in crypto, and you can't ignore it. So if you're a true leader of a country, take care of your people, wanna take care of people, make it official.

Welcome to Bankless, where we explore the frontier of internet money and internet finance. This is how to get started, how to get better, how to front run the opportunity. This is Ryan Sean Adams. I'm here with David Hoffman, and we're here to help you become more bankless. Guys, we have a special guest on the show today, the Deputy Minister of Digital Transformation of Ukraine, Alex Bornikov. We are talking to Alex all about what's going on in Ukraine. A few things that we discuss. Number one, how crypto is helping Ukraine in a time of war. Number two, why Ukraine's government is adopting a crypto friendly policy.

As a result of this. And number three, his advice for other countries considering crypto policy. We're talking to someone who is in an active uh conflict zone, an active war zone, of course. Uh, we've never done this before on Bankless, but crypto has become very relevant actually to the story of Ukraine, and I think is an example of the type of impact that this technology can have on the world. David, we uh got introduced in in kind of an interesting way to uh to Alex. Could you uh talk about that introduction?

Yeah, we got introduced to Alex via Vitalik Buterin. Uh Vitalik and I were passing messages in Telegram about who best to bring on from Ukraine to tell the story about crypto in Ukraine. And we landed on the deputy minister of digital transformation himself, who uh Vitalik was in contact with previously. So Vitalik introduced us and uh we just immediately hit it off in Telegrams to schedule uh a quick podcast just to get the story out the door. So this is an official representative out of the the Ukrainian government telling the story about how crypto has moved the needle in Ukraine. Uh so uh an unscheduled podcast, but you know, when when Vitalik Buterin connects you with somebody straight from the Ukrainian government, uh you make a podcast. Uh so that that is what we did. Um, and he helps really tell the story of the details of what it's like as a government to use crypto funds to make things happen quickly and meaningfully when it comes time to saving lives. Uh, and so there's uh there's a lot a lot of um previous ideology and and f uh philosophy and uh ideation about how crypto can help the world, but uh every once in a while the world presents you with an actual story to to really illustrate like this is what when when

Things get real, uh crypto is there. Uh and so Alex is here to help us tell that story of how things got real in Ukraine and how crypto is there for the people of Ukraine and the government of Ukraine.

Over 60 million dollars in crypto donations coming through on um a crypto crypto addresses controlled by the Ukrainian government, which is absolutely insane. They're actually uh talking about releasing NFTs as well. Alex talks about all of these things. Uh, and this legislation that just went forward to uh approve crypto, you know, a set a set of laws basically to make Ukraine a crypto friendly jurisdiction. We get into that as well, but that's been a result of the conflict and uh been as a result of Ukraine using crypto for real utility during a time of war. So, David, any last thoughts before we get in?

Yeah, I mean there are a number of US congressmen, congresswomen, and EU uh political leaders who I know listen to banklists. So I would just like to say that as soon as Ukraine uh was faced with the opportunity to use crypto, they started adopting crypto friendly regulation. So I think this is perhaps going to be uh a lesson, a lesson to learn, a lesson to pay attention to, that crypto helps entire countries when they need it.

Guys, we're going to get right into the episode with Alex. But before we do, we want to tell you about the sponsors that made this episode possible. Bankless Nation, I want to introduce you to our next guest, uh Alex Bornjakov. He is the Deputy Minister of Digital Transformation of Ukraine. We're going to be talking about Ukraine's recent embrace of crypto in the midst of war. Alex, uh, we have never actually recorded with an episode with someone who's in the middle of war. So can we start with? Can you just tell us how are you doing? How is Ukraine doing?

Um well I'm fine.

And of course, uh

uh that's uh

that's

what's going on is really terrible

and horrible.

Um so far.

Almost half of the territory, well less, maybe maybe like 40% of the Ukrainian territory

being under

different uh

um

difficult times. Um so uh in some in some part of Ukraine there's an actual war zone,

some part just uh

experiencing shortage and everything is in some cities there is no heat and electricity,

um, and a lot of cities being shelled, even Kyiv. Uh

So when it's all started, I was in Kiev and I spent two day almost two days

and I woke up from from explosions uh and there was and then

during the next

24 hours there was instant like sirens going and you had to go to shelter.

So but

there was light, there was connection, uh, and it's still there.

Um, but uh

it's not safe on around 40% of Ukrainian territory.

So e but even in a in a distant part they they s they they they fire ballistic rockets uh to as they say to destroy military infrastructure but sometimes it's just missing and and

and um people dying so

well that's that's terrible and but we're holding up uh we're trying to we make our b our best we do our best to

uh

keep going to or do our job and everyone uh has to do it its job because

We believe we're gonna win and we need to restore this, and there's so much work ahead of us.

But thank you, and we really appreciate you.

A lot of people from US, from Canada, from European Union, from other countries standing with us, and

that's really inspiring for all Ukrainians

that

uh

a lot of countries support us in this difficult times.

Alex, that's definitely something that I've noticed both inside of Ukraine and outside of Ukraine is there seems to be an immense amount of unity going on. And at least from the outside perspective, at least initially in the first few weeks of the war, uh, we saw just uh a surprising amount of high morale out of Ukraine. Uh, but I'm wondering how that's been holding up now that we're beyond 15 days into this thing. And what how's the morale on on the ground at Ukraine?

What personally experience is pretty much high. The morale is is

is beyond

I think anyone's expectations.

Um

people in Ukraine are really united, and uh

um according to the latest poll that I that I'm aware of, uh 92%, even 93% of Ukrainians believe that we're gonna win this war.

And during the first

96 hours is really hectic, and it is news was were horrible because they were advancing, and

uh it was just so many people were afraid of

uh

what's going on, what's gonna happen, and they were fleeing country

um in in a rush.

But now it's a kind of stabilized. Um our military forces uh

um stopped them on almost on all directions and pushed back on several uh directions, uh, especially around Kiev, which is kind of like a heart of

Ukraine and it's located in in the middle of the country.

Um, so um now I see like we can