Bankless x UpOnly Therapy Stream

yeah we're live brother oh what's up guys what's up yeah wow thankless after after dark yeah without Kobe just with Ledger what's up well he's still in the shower he's coming right yeah allegedly yeah yeah yeah he's just showering unless we're gonna get two rug pulls in one day yeah I've heard he's uh he's finalizing the next up only sponsorship so he's busy buying FTX right now for one dollar we can all buy FTX that's no longer a problem

it's only a dollar it's only a dollar why are we so stressed out over a dollar I don't understand because you're buying it so you might have to pay millions billions of dollars to make everyone whole um to pay their debt listen on our stream we got a corner on the bottom left and maybe Kobe will be there maybe Justin's son will be there maybe another special guest would be that I don't know I think if Justin sun gets there before Kobe Justin's son gets to come back another time after that

um Justin's son did you guys seen this I'll share my screen for people who don't know he he just announced that he is planning to bail us out oh we have two different form factors of live streams uh coming together right now oh man sorry yeah just tell the audience they're smart they're smart

smart audience go go subscribe to up only right now what should we tell them uh up only dot TV no that's not right go to Twitter go to twitch.tv slash up only TV something like that who cares best podcast in crypto what are you drinking David uh oh I am drinking a Naked and Famous with a habanero in it uh because like I said while we were getting the stream ready to go uh Sam bankman freed made himself very famous but he's been

swimming naked this entire time that is my drink what are you drinking Ledger uh sorry I was dming Justin's on the video link I'm stuck in the waiting room wait is he really is he really coming in uh here's I need more people on Twitter here's Kobe I need more people on Twitter pressroom Kobe is what's up what's up screwing up my scenes coming up coming in fashionably late how you doing David you've upgraded your background is it a green screen uh no this is uh Brooklyn not a green screen it was Brooklyn last time you saw me I

was in San Diego nice how you doing cozy it's very cozy it's crazy and nice yes are you already live yeah we are oh we are live brother yeah yeah we're live on both channels and yeah you already messed up my stuff when two streaming platforms come together bad things happen uh well yeah stream if you didn't spend half your time like [ __ ] redoing it no sorry I was like I like literally just woke up so good morning good

morning where did you leave things when you uh when do you went to sleep um what do you know yeah uh oh yeah sure I haven't even looked at like what's happened since um well binance had walked away yep um and like Sam still hadn't said anything Susie had just tweeted the like I tried sad face thing yeah that's about it I think the only thing that's come after that is like people have concluded that there's something like a six to seven

billion dollar hole in fgx's balance sheet I don't think we've waited I thought we were up to like eight to ten do we know Wall Street Journal said it was about eight right it was like it could be as large as eight it could be as large as eight how did that happen that is a big hole eight billion dollar hole in your balance sheet I mean I I don't know if you're asking me how to lose money on crypto I can tell you um and I mean it seems like they

just did [ __ ] up stuff with customer deposits right like they just either loaned them out or directionally traded them or like used them for their own personal reasons um do you think it was all Alameda because imagine okay Alameda should have blown up along with a16 or three three hours capital and the rest of them but they got they got yeah that's not invoke a16c right now uh but but they didn't because uh FTX uh gave them a big ass

buffer they didn't give them like a multi-billion dollar buffer so like it would have FTX still have gone under without alamina because I feel like that answer is almost yes yeah I mean I don't know I I the only thing I can think of is plausible but I have to admit that I just like constantly reveal myself as naive in these things because like maybe they just gave them eight billion dollars dude like we don't like they could just done that they could have gone oh it'll be fine they'll make it back they're really great Traders

um but they could have also imagine if they got like a Bitcoin or ethereum denominated whole when the prices were much lower so let's say they had a missing um like hundred thousand eighth hole or something but ethereum was worth like 300 at a time and they were like okay cool we can plug this whole no drama and then suddenly ethereum's worth five thousand dollars and in order to try and cover the whole

they've done stuff wrong and made it worse perhaps um I can maybe buy that um but that means that they've they've been in trouble for like 18 plus months now okay but it's so well that's the thing right it's like um how like how did SBF get himself in this situation right like was was this is this kind of a a person who's a a con man from the beginning did he do you think he began with this end game in mind or do you think he's like a lot of

people who who kind of go down this path where you know it's a shortcut here to shortcut here and gradually he kind of slips into the position that he's found himself in in in early November like is he purely nefarious con man or is this I I I can't think he accidentally stumbled into like losing eight billion dollars but pretty impressive is there an element of that a main man I don't know I I don't know like I watched the

surroundings documentary thing recently and it seems like she started with good intentions and then things just like Slipped Away and then at some point she like turned and was like I gotta keep I've got to be evil in order to like keep this like rolling and then she chose the evil path yeah yeah I I I just don't like if it's impossible to know the like some people were telling me all this stuff had happened really recently so Alameda had a big problem in like September

um and you I don't know if you saw that it was a tweet that said like Sam he was saying we're just moving we're rotating some wallets and there was like the eight billion dollars of ftt moved um at the end of September and he tweeted oh don't worry about it which is rotating some wallets but um this was the point when um a bunch of the um collateral was like um borrowed against perhaps um and in which case it's like you know they were fine until

really recently and then almost instantly blew up but I don't know I I find it easier to suspect that like gotta be two-steps it was it was [ __ ] for a while and then like the tide going out reveals I thought it was [ __ ] like if it's [ __ ] for a while and you try and like fix it but like make it worse and then the tide goes out and you're just not in control of that maybe maybe that makes sense um but I mean who [ __ ] knows dude what second third

biggest exchange there's another element here that I'm confused to buy which is now they're talking about the FTX hole alone so is lending money to Alameda part of the FTX hole or is that the Alameda hole right like who you know what I mean because if it's 8 billion not even counting money they lent to Alameda like they did other that's even dumber right that's what I was saying that's what I'm saying it's not just Alameda they would have gone under regardless of Alameda yeah if it was not just that kind of what what counterparty

or what did they do with the money well they bought they bailed out half of the industry when there was blood on the streets during entering that was that was a 250 million dollar line of credit yeah weren't they weren't they buying a lot of things but it doesn't add up it doesn't happen you can't get a billion dollars worth out of that so if you're at 8 billion then what the hell happened when you're making 10 million a day or more or whatever or whatever Kobe did the napkin math on based on trading fees it doesn't make any sense like and if

that's the case then there's got to be some like really serious fraud maybe it was just really simple and they went right okay so we make you know low mid eight figures a day if we borrow a billion dollars of customer deposits to YOLO into you know like his personal Robin Hood stake or something which by Robin Hood it's good for like alignment of our companies whatever um it actually only takes FTX however many days like three or four months to re-earn that

money so like what's the problem there and you do it once and you like cool it works we're now whole again uh we actually just managed to accelerate our business because we use those customers deposits to achieve our business goals and now those customers deposits are replenished maybe you do that a few times trying to be like efficient with your all the money that's available to you um and suddenly like you've done it one too many times and the tide goes out and there's a bank

run and like you know like there was literally a gigantic background for this to even be like properly discovered so they could have operated much closer to insolvent like the insolvency line where they just don't have deposits left um if this didn't happen it could have gone on for years and maybe they could have even ended up whole um without us knowing but um probably not given but on top of that they've been raising like crazy for the

last year they raise a ton of money at super high valuation so they also lost that money too yeah it was like what two billion in the last year yeah yeah raised their actual Capital raise was 2 billion yeah I didn't realize it was that high I think that's right I think that's right enough memory I think they've noticed billions of dollars collectively well they the one raise was like the meme raise that's 420 million 69 000 or something stupid uh

right right but the um I don't know what the cumulative was don't know what they spent the money on yeah but at least block find a sports Stadium there's a line of credit right like it wasn't it was an option all right the stadium is paid annually and it's probably eight figures at most um a lot a lot of the channel TSM they did do a big thing with TSM yep

only podcast sponsorship wasn't that expensive uh I like I don't understand where it went I don't understand apparently has 660 million of personal uh credit that he was filing bankruptcy for was that accurate I don't even know what's real was that was that right here yeah I thought that was someone impersonating tier 10K or whatever okay so that was the tier 13 fake one yeah what what about the other

um you know character in this in this whole thing uh CZ I mean do you think he Mastermind this from the very beginning you think he was planning this was this like downfall of my competitor like pure Machiavellian Art of War [ __ ] where he's just like um trying to knock out SPF trying to acquire the assets for cheap and then like maybe now it just got out of hand like it went too far because I I can't think that this feels good for binance

it was it's certainly terrible for the industry I don't know how far this sets us back like back to 2019 2018 2017. I think the question is like did CZ know the ftt weakness in in FTX and also Alameda did they know when he started tweeting because yeah and what was his plan right like did he want this to happen I don't think he I mean I don't think he wanted he thought he was poking he thought he was poking a vulnerable bear

and he was poking a scarecrow that was rotten right I think that's right I think that's right I think yeah I think he went into like like um put them in line might be like luck look what we can do to the sentiment around your exchange like remember who's the boss type thing big time and then accidentally exposed um a hollow a gigantic Hall yeah but like if he did actually Mastermind this like that's kind of crazy that's like one of the most insane

um like business chess moves that I guess I'll get to see in real time in my life um but like maybe that's the thing maybe we never get to know I don't think so we always have to we always wonder so we always love your CZ oh I don't know about CZ side of it but in terms of we'll we'll know a lot about the FTX side oh big time oh yeah the uh but yeah the CZ side that's that's up to CZ and bit boy

uh someone should tweet at bit boy get him to con come on oh God I really don't like that guy yeah I mean I really didn't like our guests yesterday either so uh Kobe you've never directly interfaced with bit boy right um I spoke to him for the first time ever um do you remember when the lawsuit was happening with a tozy yeah so when he was suing a tozy and then I offered to fund a tozy right that shows his defense um I emailed bitboy then well that was

ongoing before he'd like officially pulled out saying like just want you to know a tozi's in hospital right now his wife's due date is like literally today um so like all this is happening at the time his child is being born um like I will fund him unlimited to take that stress away um and like here is why um like I don't think that you should do this and then he sent me a very thoughtful response and then we've

emailed a couple of times since maybe like two or three emails exchanged um the latest one he just asked me like what I thought of the token promotion business model in general like is it even redeemable and I sent him like um short essay about like how I think the token promotion business model is just like only the only people that want the token promoters the token promotions from YouTubers are people that want the price to go up in the short term like you never see like are they going

we need to go to like back like bands crypto banter and get uh like a token ad um instead they just built something that worked and um um and then he made a video which was him basically reading out the email as though it was his own words um which was um yeah I mean I thought it was pretty good that he did it and said like this stuff is bad even though he did that stuff in the past and it owned up to all that stuff but um

yeah other than that I've spoke to him maybe three times okay well that's more than that so yeah I mean we just didn't have a full conversation with him yeah we had we had like an hour other than that yeah we are yeah we had one email and then we had the show with him yeah I feel like I I feel like I kind of understand him a lot more after that like I understand like what he is doing in the space and like what his motivations are what is it um I think I think bitboy really likes attention oh yeah yeah like but I think

that that um motivates him in a way that um yeah I don't know maybe money motivates us he has a background in like internet marketing which I kind of makes sense and I feel like he was like oh this crypto thing I can do internet marketing via viral videos here and then the ethical consequences of what the hell he was doing came up way way later and he was probably too far gone in terms of what type of monetization strategies existed so I

kind of understand how he got there but I don't understand him per se other than I see what you're saying about from an attention perspective but I don't know I mean I can't I can't connect with it man there's no he could he you should be able to look at those deals and recognize there's there's no winner with what he was doing with like the token promotions of like you know [ __ ] Jam token you know like it just doesn't you know it's like um he um yeah look like I agree with that I I think at the end of the day I walked away from that

and thinking that like oh I mean bit boy is just kind of like a of regular guy like he's not a devil he's not an angel he's just kind of a he's just a regular guy and one of his comments when we were talking to him was like I just started creating content that my audience wanted right and they wanted to hear about the latest like [ __ ] coin that was gonna Moon overnight and so that's what I gave them and so he was like what's the harm in that I there's demand for a product and I serve

it up and like our point is just like yeah but there's a difference between what people want and like what people need and these are noobs and you have like a responsibility if you have a platform of your size um I don't know I'm hopeful he's getting some of that he seemed kind like actually he came on the episode and he was very um he's a different person contrite like Jason like I I thought we were going to be in the in the octagon with like you know WWF wrestler and we

weren't he just came on and he was I mean he apologized at one point dude okay so the most interesting thing Ryan is like our chat right now is we have like 50 people who are like uh uh a bit boy was right he called out FTX uh bit boy is awesome and then the other half of the chat is like bit boy's a clown don't ever talk to him again why can't you guys talk about something else he posted a video today where he was just like zero remorse for the victims and all this was this the one in his bathroom he's like in a bathroom or something oh he's

like wearing his Gucci suit or yeah but he was it's one thing to say like I told you so you're this guy was a scammer I knew it I had proof that's fine but he claimed this like euphoric level Victory and there are no winners here yeah bit boy is not a winner here CZ is not a winner here CZ acknowledges that I don't know what cc actually feels but his public stance on it was at least like fair and and and

reasoned and bitboy's emotions took over the guy cannot control his emotions and he cannot recognize the fact that they're victims based on these outcomes the outcomes from his promotions oh I swam down like the the easiest fastest lane with the strongest current that I could to make money I didn't do anything wrong it's like okay it's the same reason that Martin shkreli pisses me off the dude who's like selling pills for 750 a pop because he could

it doesn't make it right there's an ethical way to do business and there's an unethical way to do business and that's your choice that you have to live with as an individual yeah and swimming down the easy Lane for Max profits is in my opinion um not not a worthy Choice the theme of 2022 perhaps or at least all those people who do that I I don't I don't think he went into compression business to like maliciously steal from a lot of people but I think when you're making a lot of money doing a business model

that's probably not great for your users it's easy to not acknowledge that while the goings good and maybe even lie to yourself and say like actually everyone's winning the Market's going up everyone's kind of winning yeah there's some losers um but we do good due diligence and we disclose and blah blah blah blah so like you know whatever the only comical um the only like really comical part of this for me is that like If instead of having FTX as a sponsor for apparently we just Shield loads of

[ __ ] coins and done like token promotions a different [ __ ] token every episode we'd look better now than we currently do I mean you never know right sure enough we look like [ __ ] right now I'm not trying to say we're done but here's what's crazy it's like um so you guys have had like one sponsor consistently bankless has had like many like we have multiple sponsor slots right a few handfuls here and like I'm just like saying it David like we do our best to select our sponsor and like our sponsors and we clearly we do not I mean we turn a ton of sponsors away or like

we're Shady like you're shady you can't we can't support that but like just law of numbers in crypto I mean you never know and it doesn't have to be a a crypto exchange hack it could be just like anything somebody wrote some sloppy smart contract code there was like a bridge that was flawed there was some kind of multi-sig that you know was a a Vector that we didn't realize North Korea freaking attacked like who knows what could happen and that is um it's just a lot of responsibility well it's

the same thing as like why the hell are we in this industry in the first place we're in this industry because it's an industry about money uh so all sponsors are Downstream of something of that nature uh there's no way out of that risk no matter what guys the chest blowing up about um yeah we know SBF retweeted Justin's son we know that that's true I've DM to just pause the Tweet though is he saying we're figuring out a way to make Tron whatever the rest of them are blah blah blah

holders hall or is he saying they're playing together a solution to create all of FTX um relief basically because it's his first time I announcement to stand behind all Tron token holders Tron BTT jst Sun HT holders on FTX we are putting together a solution forward with FTX to initiate a pathway forward so like I don't know why is he just saying like we're figuring out with them how to make our own bags good I don't know why SPF

would retweet that if it was just about Tron and TRX it only makes sense under the context that Tron and Justin sun is helping FTX does it I don't even know anymore with SPF man uh I don't I don't think Sam's got control of his Twitter account anymore uh I think that is that is the hands of Crisis management team yeah crisis management do you think Sam had an emergency escape patch plan there's my question is is SPF On The Run

just like everyone else of 2022. it would be on things this industry's freaking nuts like so does mine Ledger like she was just talking about this so she's like is it dead this time yeah how are you guys's wives lately I think sits weird enough that y'all call me Ledger and that they call someone named Jordan Kobe and like she's like what who who and why do y'all do that and then now I'm like well this guy is on the run and he came on the podcast and this guy you definitely know my wife

works in the medical field and like she hates scarlet and she's like and I was she watched the show for the first time ever for to see that clip um and yeah it's like it's Mayhem I ran into some people Pat how are you doing today and I'm like I'm all right my industry blew up a little bit over the last 72 hours I got a little bit I got totally rugged in terms of what I thought was true and what was actually true um look it's embarrassing it is it's

insane like we live in absolute La La Land of Total Insanity where the stakes are billions of dollars that very few people can comprehend even the people within the industry apparently even the people that are supposed to be the leaders are freaking morons like taking extraordinary risk the same risks that gains he takes you know they gave smarter than them I would put Kobe in charge of crypto like just Capital C crypto country Kobe can be in

charge and he's just a degenerate Gambler that's been doing it since 2013 and survived it's like this survival bias survivorship bias so he was damn good at it he's lived through all this out and I'm like put the guy in charge like at least I don't think he's going to rug everything and steal it all that's what I find insane I don't know if you read the multicline investor letter but they said they had access to the FTX Q2 balance sheet information as part of their ongoing due diligence um and they still lost like what 20 of

assets like assets under management on the exchange so like can they not read a balance sheet or was the balance sheet wrong like was it like fictional doctored I think not reading a balance sheet is definitely something to be considered that's definitely a possibility yeah like maybe right but if you then write in your investor oh we did the due diligence we looked at like the Q2 books and then investors go look at the Q2 bucks as a gigantic hole it's not gonna look great

um but it makes me wonder like were they giving incorrect books or did the problem happen afterwards did the books actually look fine in Q2 um I don't know and if you can have like in in the proper Insider information and do like Insider due diligence on FTX bucks and still get rugged by FTX um I mean that's kind of crazy um Kobe did you see that Sam said did come on up only yeah this was on November 7th

he said he'd come on upon me forever ago well that was that was before uh basically FTX went to zero I think he was he was interested in talking to CZ because he was real real interested in bending the knees before he actually you know was exposed naked yeah he was saying he'd come on up only you know he's willing to talk saying basically we're not even acknowledging these rumors anymore back to business from the FTX account and it was all a sham in the background he's trying to raise six billion dollars to cover the hole Yeah

yeah and then like he's he said to us we got planned to a group chat with him after he said he'd come on um and he was like yeah cool we'll do it today on November 7th maybe November on November 7th or 8th and then we were like great cool we'll do it this time I'll like wake up on time and then we like get to it and it's like oh we're actually gonna have to push it back and then was like the radio silence right it's like right down to the line they were just like

like lying about it I'm like oh yeah we're just it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine I'll go do a podcast and say how everything's fine well that's on the theme with 2022 like everyone is like that up until the moment where everyone realizes that you all have to like show confidence until the very last moment I mean but to your to your point Kobe like so um I I just looked at the day um a few hours ago because I couldn't believe it but it's only 11 days ago that Voorhees and SBF had this debate in

SPF was lecturing the crypto industry on regulation yeah he did a speech in Congress or in I don't know where you go sit in the wooden bit working the government you know like they're in like a circle and you're sat there you did that um and he did a speech about how like the financial crisis couldn't have happened because they were like borrowing and like you know re-borrowing and blah blah blah whereas everything on

FDX is like that couldn't happen on FTX and that was last year literally in Congress like you just went and sat there and either a lied to Congress about um all the [ __ ] or all the problems happened afterwards um and maybe maybe it's just like me being naive again and being like why would you go sit in Congress and like intentionally tell lies to like your government um

if you just knew they were false it must have happened later on but man we we saw the same thing with uh oh I just uploaded uh that sound just went straight to the stream we just saw the same thing with uh three hours Capital where they were like um uh super confident and trying to trying to talk about how like you know a few more liquidations than up only uh and then that was them right and so it's just an insane amount of projection that they have to produce that they have to

give because they have to give confidence right we saw this with with Alameda the CEO saying like oh yeah we'll buy all the ftt tokens at 22 you have to produce confidence uh and so it's just like an insane amount of projection that's like required because that's like one of the last bits of ammo that they have left to shoot yeah I'm uh I'm reading this uh this multi-coin um this this multi-coin letter so how down bad is multi-coin right now