The Explorer Mindset with Simona Pop | Layer Zero

I'm a little bit of a child of the revolution and I know what it's like to not have freedoms of expression, travel, all of that. And I think it's very, very important and very ingrained clearly in me to be able to enable that for other people.

Welcome to Layer Zero. Layer Zero is a podcast of unscripted conversations with the people that make up the Ethereum community. Crypto is built by code, but is composed by people, and each individual member of the crypto community has their own story to tell. Cypherpunks understood that the code they write impacts the people that use it, and Layer Zero focuses on the people behind the code, because Ethereum is people all the way down and always has been. Today on Layer Zero, I'm speaking with Simona Pop, and we recorded this episode in the middle of DevConnect. And so there is a big conference room, a co-working space where a lot of people are heads down building whatever it is that they're building. So there's a little bit of background chatter, but hopefully that adds to the vibe rather than detract from it. We talk a lot about governance, and Simona is a child of the Romanian Freedom Revolution from the Eastern Bloc, from Russia's dominance with communism. And so she was very, very young when uh the revolution in Romania happened and broke and broke Romania free from communism. And we use this as a metaphor to discuss Tao governance of all things. She talks about how yes, you can cut off the head of top-down totalitarian communism, but you have to also replace that with something else, or else the same s sort of structure just grows back in its place. And so we we take this idea of if we are going to kill something, we need to replace it with something new, otherwise the same patterns will unfold once again, uh, which is what happened in Romania post uh post communist Russia.

And so we talk about uh the different structures of Tao governance. We use this metaphor for a flowing river of liquid governance, of liquid representation, and allowing this river to adapt as rivers do to its surrounding environment. And if DAO governance needs to change and adapt over time, it also needs to act like a flowing river. And so there's plenty of metaphors with rivers and adaption in there. And overall, Simona is just a beloved part of the Ethereum community. She's working extremely hard figuring out Dow governance, which is the problem of problems in this space right now. So let's go ahead and get right into this conversation with Simona Pop right after we talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible.

Hey Smona, what's up?

Everything's damn fine.

Wha why is it damn fine?

Because we're in Amsterdam

We are in Amsterdam.

for Def Connect.

Yeah, have you been

to Amsterdam before?

I have, and it was raining and it was the city was beautiful, but in the sunshine, it's a totally different experience.

The consensus that I've gotten about ETH uh Amsterdam is that everyone loves it.

Yeah.

Everyone just has the the best words to describe Amsterdam.

It's

beautiful. It's all the flowers are in bloom. The tuli it's tulip season.

Yeah.

And we are here

As a connoisseur of plants, I will have to say the plants of Amsterdam are I top notch. Top notch.

on point.

Yes.

And the street flowers, what is the thing? That's like a whole different level of street flowers.

I have walked hours. Yes. I've only been here for two days. I don't know when you got here, but I've been only here for two days and I have walked for like four or five hours total.

Agreed.

Yeah.

And it's like, why would you take a means of transport when you like canals, flowers, trees in bloom?

Uh huh.

Do you know how Amsterdam was chosen?

Uh Dev Connect? Do you know who who made that choice?

No, I don't actually.

Well they made a good choice.

They absolutely did, and the weather, they like arranged that to a T, so pleased.

I've asked you this question before, but not in a long-form podcasting passion. So we're gonna go into this a little bit more, but why real life? Why is real life important? We love this industry is on the internet. Like we don't need to meet in real life. Why can't we just go meet on Discord or Zoom? Why can't we meet in the metaverse?

Because we're people and energy is important and being able to spend time with friends because at this stage a lot of us are friends, let's face it. We've known each other for what?

Five years. Um, it's a long time and it's actually a really, really um nice kind of group of friends. And if you think about it, it's a really really good dynamic that we have together.

And the new people coming in and the OGs. It's just really, really important to just catch up now and again. And obviously the hugging. Now the hugging is back on the menu. It's like, it's great.

I have been warning people that I am a hugger. So they're so they're not surprised. But it's also like no one is surprised because like the last time I've seen most of these people was months ago.

Yeah.

Uh and so just the enthusiasm of seeing people here in real life is is just lovely. Plus, like we get to lock all of the uh ETH developers in a room and and force them into having a merge date. So that's what's going on right now.

Amazing. Very true. Um at an undisclosed location.

Yes, a very secret location of only the privileged parties can can get to.

Um

Yeah.

But yeah, it look, and again, everything does happen online and we can obviously reach a lot more people online, but it is important to create all of these little moments that we can touch base, we can interact with each other face to face, and then go back to being online. Right. And I think having those catch-up moments is important.

Certainly, yeah, the um Dev Connect. It's called Dev Connect for a reason. We are here to sync our nodes.

Yeah.

Uh because even though I think obviously the crypto industry is probably the most adept at working online, like we can get we can be the most productive versus any other industry online, but it like still in real life, like there's always these these tailwind benefits of being in real life that will never be replaced.

And think about the fact that most I mean, I don't know about you, but a lot, a lot of the relationships that I have and a lot of the friendships and a lot of the collaborations

that I've worked on started at certain events, 2018, 2019, and so on, when we were first kind of doing these things and establishing this schedule of events. So yeah, it's important.

So what uh class are you a part of? Like what is your what cyc cycle of of the crypto industry did you come in? Are you class of 2017? Earlier?

End of twenty seven

End of twenty seventeen. Okay, same z's.

When I actually started genuinely working on a project, because that's when I met Mark, uh well, end of 2017, beginning of 2018, and that's where um I became the co-founder of the Standard Bounties Protocol and Bounties Network.

Yes, Bounties Network. Right. So what what brought you in? Like uh Bounties Network is very, very uh Gitcoin ethos aligned, which is kind of where you found yourself, right close to Kevin O'Walkie, very much like uh finding ways to push development to the to the margins. Like what about crypto brought you in?

So I think for me it was always this ability to level out the playing field and allow more people a seat at the table. In fact.

Rebuild the table with a lot more seats, right? And that's one of the main things that attracted me to bounties and actually because Gitcoin was built on top of the standard bounties protocol and so we were very much value aligned. But in terms of the core interest for me, and that's what continues to be my core interest, is how can we enable access to resources for everybody.

Mm-hmm.

Regardless of geography, regardless of social status, regardless of education, regardless of language, regardless of all of that. And everything that I tend to do is to push that forward and to try to create more pathways in for a lot more people.

What were you doing before crypto? Did it uh kind of align with all that stuff or or what was what was your mode of operating before crypto?