Justin Sun: On Tron, Vitalik, and Becoming Humble

after, the, 12, years, uh, in, the, crypto, uh and, I, I, think, I, become, a, crypto, like native, I, start, to, uh, feel, like, this, is my, home, right, if, I, um, sell, like, all, the crypto, and, go, any, other, places, there's nowhere, I, can go, welcome, to, bankless, where, we, explore the, frontier, of, Internet, money, and internet, Finance, this, is, Ryan, Sean, Adams I'm, here, with, David, Hoffman, and, we're here, to, help, you, become, more, bankless

guys, we, have, Justin, Sun, the controversial, founder, of, the, Tron blockchain, on, the, podcast, today, why, in the, world, did, we, do, this, episode, well it's, because, Tron, has, some, real, traction out, here, and, this, is, the, first, time we've, ever, had, Justin, sun, on, the, podcast I, got, to, say, David, it, proved, to, be, a pretty, fascinating, and, uh, sometimes hilarious, conversation, yeah, yeah, I, had fun, I, had, fun, as, well, if, you, are, not familiar, with, Tron, it's, an, open, source proof, of, stake, layer, one, chain, it, was launched, during, the, peak, of, Ico, Mania

back, in, September, 2017, if, you, around, at that, time, you, will, remember, it, as, a, uh copy, pasta, of, ethereum, and, and historically, I'd, say, it's, been, really dialed, up, to, the, max, on, marketing aggressive, marketing, I, would, say bombastic, claims, some, might, say, and, uh hence, a, lot, of, the, controversy surrounding, it, but, there's, also, some traction, here, particularly, in, the peer-to-peer, stable, coin, Market, where, uh in, some, sectors, in, some, geographies around, the, world, Tron, is, actually fulfilling, the, crypto, mission, of, banking

the, unbanked, and, uh, there's, a, lot, of onchain, um, activity, that, actually, proves that, so, um, a, very, interesting conversation, as, far, as, that, goes, as, well some, things, that, we, covered, who, is Justin, Sun, why, is, he, in, crypto, what's, he here, to, do, we, also, talk, about, why, he built, Tron, and, why, he, wishes, he'd, copied ethereum, 100%, rather, than, just 95%, what, Justin, thinks, of, tron's previous, marketing, tactics, and, why, he might, not, do, it, this, way, again, and, uh why, Tron, sent, bankless, a, cease, and assist, that's, a, true, story, that, actually

happened, and, finally, we, end, with, who, he admires, in, crypto, uh, including, a, really interesting, conversation, about, vitalic butterin, the, yron, sent, banket, and, desist is, actually, how, this, podcast, got, started you, know, bankless, we're, pretty, good, at making friends, and, uh, we, of, course, were interfacing, with, uh, Justin's, lawyers, not Justin, himself, uh, and, I, can't, remember at, some, uh, podcast, meeting, that, Ry, and, I were, having, a, bank, list, just, had, the idea, like, haha, what, if, we, had, Justin, son on, the, podcast, and, then, I, was, like, well let, me, go, text, the, lawyers, let's, see

what, happens, um, and, of, course, the lawyers, wanted, to, review, the, questions we, would, want, to, make, sure, we, wouldn't ask, anything, like, too, crazy, um, but, as soon, as, we, actually, got, to, talk, to Justin's, son, both, of, us, were, like, you know, like, we're, just, going, to, go, at, it and, see, what, happens, and, Justin, son, was like, yeah, we're, just, going, to, go, at, it and, see, what, happens, so, as, soon, as, we got, past, the, lawyers, things, got, a, lot more, um, personable, I, would, say, and, I found, Justin, a, lot, more, personable, than I, would, have, expected, on, this, episode, I I, had, a, pretty, fun, time, yeah, so, did, I and, certainly, this, is, not, an, endorsement of, of, Tron, and, um, you, know, this, is, not, a

claim, that, Tron, is, the, most decentralized, blockchain, on, the, planet um, we, definitely, got, one, side, of Justin's, Sun, yeah, we, see, we, saw, the, very like, a, personable, uh, Happy, side, of Justin, son, there, I, got, to, say, though Dave, there's, something, to, the, fact, that Tron, has, survived, all, of, this, time, and um, what, doesn't, lie, to, me, is, the, um traction, that, Tron, actually, has, in, the stable, coin, market, and, it's, actually, Inc impressive, the, the, amount, of, block, it's selling, the, fees, that, it's, throwing, off like, even, ethereum, would, be, jealous, of

yeah, there, there's, something, here, and, it is, surprising, so, one, other, thing, David, I uh, want, to, talk, a, little, bit, about, the backstory, of, this, episode, more, detail, on how, it, came, to, be, and, what, were, some, of the, provisions, going, into, the, episode but, we'll, say, that, for, the, debrief conversation, if, you're, a, bankless citizen, you, already, have, access, to, that that's, on, the, premium, podcast, feed, that you, now, have, if, you, are, not, a, citizen, uh consider, upgrading, there's, a, link, in, the show, notes, and, you, can, hear, our, thoughts after, this, episode, with, Justin, Sun, all right, let's, get, right, to, the, episode, but before, we, do, we, want, to, thank, the sponsors, that, made, this, possible, Bank

list, Nation, today, we, talk, to, Justin, Sun who, is, the, founder, of, Tron, which, is, a 122, billion, blockchain, at, the, time, of recording, securing, over, $50, billion worth, of, stable, coins, and, uh, I'll, just note, actually, David, I'm, not, sure, if, you know, that, that's, more, than, uh, ethereum in, terms, of, tether, there's, more, tether on, Tron, than, ethereum, at, the, time, of recording, Justin, welcome, to, bankless thank, you, Ryan, and, David, okay, so, this, is the, first, time, we've, had, you, on, Bank list, actually, and, uh, I, don't, know, David

we've, been, doing, this, podcast, for, about four, years, so, we've, gone, through, some, uh stuff, in, crypto, some, crypto, Cycles, uh and, you've, been, through, many, cycles, in crypto, as, well, so, I, think, we, should really, start, this conversation, um, by, getting, to, know, you get, the, bankless, nation, introduced, to Justin, son, can, so, maybe, we, could, start there, um, why, did, you, get, into, crypto, can you, tell, us, the, story, yes, sure, so, uh, in around, uh, 200, and, uh, um, 11, uh, I, graduate

from, pin, University, uh, in, Beijing, at that, time, and, then, I, apply, for, uh, The Graduate, School, in, United, States, uh, in upen, so, I, uh, join, uh, upen, in, around 2012, and, then, at, 2012, I, started, getting started, to, know, uh, about, Bitcoin, so, at that, time, Bitcoin, is, around, uh, $1, uh trading, on MTX, um, but, at, that, time, I, start, to, know

about, Bitcoin, and, around 2013, uh, I, join, uh, ripol, lapse, so, at, that time, it's, called, opencoin, I, was, uh, I, I think, the, first, like, Asian, employee probably, in, uh, R, riple, apps, um, and, then later, company, Rebrand, to, riple, Labs, so before, that, it's, called opencoin, Uh, and, then, Rebrand, to, repol ABS, uh, and, then, I, was, the, first, employee

um, in, China, as, well, um, I, was, sent, by repo, back, to, China, to, be, uh, the, chief representative, uh, in, Greater, China, area um, so, I, did, lots, of, the, work, to, uh develop, uh, xrp, and, Report, Community, uh at, that, time, um, and, then, uh, I, move, on, uh leave, report, I, think, around 2016, um, then, uh, created, a, new, blockchain

uh, called, Tron, um, actually, one, of, the reason, uh, why, I, always, kind, like interested, in, uh, stable, coin, payments, uh it's, kind, of, like, back, to, uh 2013, when, I, first, join, uh, rippo, actually right, everybody, knows, like, one, of, the biggest, vision, for, xrp, uh, and, rppo protocol, is, to, become, a, global, like settlement, layer, for, a, payment, uh, the

first, version, of, Ripple, actually, has like, Gateway, right, so, basically, all different, like, fi, can, create, like, on rippo, and, uh, sending, the, uh, stable, coin at, that, time, we, don't, have, like, stable concept, first, so, um, but, sending, like fiia, between, the, um, blockchain, protocol so, that's, like, how, rippo, like, wrot, the idea, in, the, first, place, so, that's, why, uh when, I, create, a, TR, the, first, like, user

case, come, to, my, mind, is, um, payment, right so, everyone, everywhere, where, just, can use, like, uh, a, stable, coin, to, make payment, uh, even, right, when, I, fir, when, I create, TR, at, that, time, like, stable, coin still, is, not, like, popular, very, popular in, um, in, the, space, at, that, time, like teder, uh, just, like, newly, introduced, to crypto, Traders, at, that, time, I, think, most of, the, people, just, like, trading, crypto

with, Bitcoin, um, sending, to, like, ponia right, just, um, trading, alter, coins, with Bitcoin, so, um, but, I, think, after, um almost, seven, years, from, now, right, after I, create, TR, today, like, everybody especially, like, new, users, come, to, crypto world, uh, they, always, like, get, used, to trade, crypto, just, by, um, using, t, alron, uh which, I, believe, is, a, a, very, big, uh, uh

Dynamic, shift, right, from, like, Bitcoin, to Tron, um, which, obviously, I, believe, there has, lots, of, Advantage, right, why, we eventually, have, this, kind, of, the, shift um, but, I, won't, uh, uh, elaborate, on, that but, still, continue, my, uh, crypto, Journey right, and, then, I, think, after, um, five years, right, after, we, introduced, like Tron, like, five, years, from, now, um, um, so, I

think, we, have, devolved, like, a, lot, of, new application, on, top, of, Tron, Network, um but, still, I, believe, uh, trong, and, the blockchain, world, uh, is, fascinating, we will, have, um, more, and, more, uh possibility, I, think, stable, coin, payments and, the, settlement, is, only, one, of, them this, is, uh, really, fascinating, to, hear your, Journeys, begin, with, uh, with, ripple very, very, early, as, well, into, your, career it, sounds, like, after, uh, after, uh graduating, University, it's, funny, I, I

remember, vitalic, butan, saying, in, 2020, uh uh, 2013, he, actually, tried, to, get, an internship, at, Ripple, uh, for, some, reason he, didn't, but, uh, I'm, not, sure, if, you, you took, his, job, Justin, but, it, would, have been, a, you, know, like, a, funny, historical uh, you, know, like, coincidence, if, you, guys work, there, at, the, same, time, um, but, I'm curious, like, a, lot, of, people, come, to crypto, for, for, different, reasons, right and, um, you, know, some, people, are, here, for the, money, some, people, are, here, for, the uh, some, people, are, here, for, just, the, the

opportunity, some, people, are, here, to change, the, world, why, are, you, here, I, I think, for, me, um, I'm, quite, lucky, when, I first, like, graduate, from, school, right, so the, first, thing, come, to, my, mind, is, uh cryptocurrency, actually, um, I, haven't, had a, chance, to, get, into, like, AI, industry right, to, get, into, like, other, like, tech industry, so, the, first, industry, I, get, in is, CP, crypto, so, so, that's, why, um, I, also feel, is, kind, of, like, lucky, right, to, find

a, um, a, long, like, career, Journey, you, can be, with, for, a, long, time, in, such, a, um early, stage, of, my, career, um, and, with Alik, also, mentioned, this, right, I, I, think in, his, recent, like, blog, so, he, he, says like, uh, he, actually, like, um, interview like, Ripple, uh, several, times, when, he leave, uh, Bitcoin, magazine, right, uh, I, I think, at, Le, at, that, time, ralic, also wants, to, create, something, different, from

Bitcoin, at, that, time, so, he, wants, to build, like, smart, contract, into, the blockchain, right, and, the, of, course, like Bitcoin, won't, allow, him, to, do, that, so, so that's, why, I, think, at, that, time, I remember, like, when, weal, first, like, talk with, um, rort, he, also, mentioned, the, idea um, try, to, build, smart, contract, into Ripple, uh, because, Ripple, also, don't, have Smart, contract, uh, it's, same, is, it's, a

very, uh, fast, and, instant, payment, network but, without, a, smart, contract, so, um, so, at that, time, uh, WTIC, wants, to, introduce like, smart, contract, into, um, blockchain uh, which, I, think, is, a, definitely, very interesting, idea, so, that's, why, right when, I, fir, first, like, uh, create, TR, uh, I also, believe, right, um, a, blockchain, with a, smart, contract, is, the, future, but obviously, right, now, like, everybody, is

doing, that, but, uh, we, are, talking, about like, in, 2013, it's, uh, still, a, very, uh early, idea, uh, and, also, for, myself, um, I feels, like, crypto, is, just, my, home, right I, I'm, kind, of, like, some, like, person, lots of, people, come, to, United, States, right, so people, always, asking, you, like, why, you, um you, come, to, United, States, for, money, for Freedom, or, for, other, for, career, and, for

any, other, reasons, but, for, me, I, feels like, since, I'm, like, very, crypto, native, I kind, like, born, in, American, so, so, that's why, uh, makes, me, feels, like, I, born, in crypto, so, so, that's, why, I'm, very familiar, with, lots, of, the, early, story, of crypto, but, never, even, have, a, chance, to be, in, industry, so, and, O, of, course, I'm very, uh, satisfied, with, uh, what, we, have achieved, I, I, think, in, the, past, like, 10 years, so, I, think, I, will, be, be, here, for

like, uh, um, many, decades, yeah, yeah, well uh, Justin, we're, entering, uh, the, 2024 bull, market, it's, either, the, the, fourth or, fifth, crypto, cycle, depending, on, on how, you, count, them, and, you've, actually seen, all, of, them, and, uh, the, number, of people, that, see, all, of, these, crypto Cycles, becomes, extremely, rare, the, number of, cycles, that, we, go, on, like, it's, it's hard, to, last, in, crypto, for, so, long, like even, CZ, of, all, people, actually, has, to take, a, a, timeout, a, Hiatus, SP, SPF, is, gone

dquan, is, gone, but, then, also, some, other very, big, names, are, still, here, Brian Armstrong, vitalic, is, still, here, uh, the longer, you, go, on, in, crypto, the, harder, it remains, to, actually, still, be, a, player, in the, game, uh, and, you, are, one, of, those players, how, have, you, lasted, so, long, what has, your, strategy, been, every, single, bull market, opportunity, is, an, opportunity, to wash, out, uh, but, nonetheless, you, you, you are, still, here, what, what, would, you, say you, credit, to, the, reason, as, to, how you've, lasted, so, long, in crypto, yes, um, actually, um, this, year, has

been, um, has, been, 12, years, I, have, been, in this, industry, um, so, I, think, for, the, for the, first cycle, um, I, think, sometimes, um, this, kind of, the, idea, kind, of, across, my, mind, it's like, I, will, sell, all, my, crypto, and, I, can take, the, money, and, leave, the, table, right it's, like, u, in, a, casino, right, so, you think, this, is, it, uh, I, have, the, enough money, uh, I, have, earn, and, and, and, I, will

uh, I, will, go, to, other, places, um, but after, the, 12, years, uh, in, the, crypto, uh and, I, I, think, I, become, a, crypto, like native, I, start, to uh, feel, like, this, is, my, home, right, if, I um, sell, like, all, the, crypto, and, go, any other, places, there's, nowhere, I, can, go, so so, that's, why, I, I, right, I, mean eventually, it's, feel, like, like, this, way so, so, that's, why, I, think, since, um, 2017

actually, um, um, I, think, I, always, keep most, of, my, crypto, just, in, the, position um, uh, which, I, hold, them, uh, I, never, like sell, um, the, majority, of, my, crypto, after um, that, even, some, people, might, like monitor, um, my, addresses, and, find, out, I do, some, kind, of, the, trade, um, but, um, for me, I, think, like, 70%, of, my, positions, like

stay, like, all, the, way, uh, one, of, the biggest, reason, um, is, because, I, have nowhere, to, go, so uh, and, then, because, I, also, turn, turn, to 34, uh, now, because, I, think, in, my, 20s, uh, I feels, like, I, have, energy, to, go, into, lots of, other, um, industry, right, I, can, do, AI, I can, do, uh, robots, I, can, do, other, like Hightech, new, industry, but, for, now, um, uh

I, think, I, I, can, only, be, succeed, in crypto, world, so, so, that's, why, that's also, why, I, keep, like, most, of, my, wealth in, crypto, because, I, don't, really, know like, where, I, can, go, if, I, acit, from crypto, business, yeah, it's, funny, like, the the, idea, of, nowhere, to, go, that's, sort, of um, how, yeah, whenever, I, am, thinking, about selling, some, of, my, my, crypto, people forget, about, the, other, side, of, that which, is, you, have, to, buy, something else, like, I, I, think, about, like, what, else

am, I, going, to, buy, right, do, do, I, want Fiat, like, am, I, more, bullish, on, like stocks, like, so, it's, uh, this, is, why, it becomes, a, conundrum, in, terms, of, like figuring, out, what, to, sell, and, and, when to, sell, it's, because, you, have, to, be bullish, on, some, other, category, and, I, I find, myself, uh, always, gravitating, back to, to, crypto, um, I, I'm, curious, but, we want, to, spend, I, think, a, lot, of, the, rest of, the, time, talking, about, Tron, Justin but, since, you've, been, through, so, many cycles, do, you, have, any, thoughts, on, this

particular, cycle, on, 2024, so like, where, do, you, think, we're, going, is this, going, to, be, a, repeat, of, you, know the, 2021, 2022, where, we, sort, of, you, know Bubble, Up, and, then, uh, come, crashing, down does, this, just, play, out, how, it, always has, in, sort, of, these, these, fouryear Cycles, or, is, this, time, different, in, in some, meaningful, way, what's, what's, your take, on, this, this, next, cycle, we're entering, into, yes, uh, I, definitely believe, uh, this, cycle, is, different, from the, three, like, four, Cycles, we, have, we

have, been, through, uh, one, of, the, biggest difference, I, believe, is, mass, adoption, so uh, before, that, even, I, think, Mass adoption, has, be, become, like, narrative right, everybody, believe, in, um, but, we never, been, uh, so, close, to, um, this narrative, um, today, uh, if, you, check, like binance, website, you, can, see, there, is, uh uh 170, million, users, register, on, binance, uh

and, if, you, TR, check, on, like, Trang addresses, today, I, think Trang, similar, with, ethereum, has, around 200, million, uh, uh, addresses, um, so basically, I, think, which, means, a, very important, signal, uh, plus, like, Bitcoin ETF, right, we, have, today, um, which, is, also I, have, a, theory, so, I, believe, if, a, new technology, can, convince, at, least, 100

million, people, to, join, the, technology, is going, to, eventually, reach, to, 7, billion, 8 billion, people, ours, right, it's, just, like uh, it's, more, like, a, Facebook, moment right, so, when, like, Facebook, to, hit, the first, uh, 100, million, users, uh, you, will start, to, realize, social, media, are, going to, be, everywhere, right, so, it's, not, going to, going, away, so, before, that, like everybody, when, I, first, joined, like, uh Bitcoin, world, in, around

2012, everybody, is, talking, about, like Bitcoin, it's, a, social, experiment, right can, fail, like, anytime, um, I, remember, like when, I, try, to, tell, my, friend, to, buy Bitcoin, I, always, told, them, this, is, uh experiments, you, you, must, be, ready, for lose, 100%, of, your, money, right, because like, anytime, Bitcoin, can, go, wrong, and you, probably, going, to, lose, all, your money, right, coin, can, go, to, zero, uh, it

has, no, value, at, all, so, you, need, to, be prepared, for, this, kind, of, the, social experiment, um, but, I, I, think, after, four cycle, after, like, uh, uh, 12, years, uh, I really, believe, like, after, um, ETF, um Bitcoin, has, like, passed, the, gate, right so, to, become, the, digital, goal, I, I, think this, is, has, become, a, reality, just, like Facebook, has, get, into, the, first, like, 100

million, uh, users, uh, and, it, still, take time, to, get, a, billion, people, uh, on, Earth but, it's, become, uh, 100%, certainty, now, so so, that's, like, um, the, biggest, I, think certainty, we, have, in, with, this, cycle, uh and, of, course, I, think, for, um, tether, you know, uh, and, Al, also, for, the, mainstream blog, like etherum, uh, I, believe, it's, going, to become, like, uh, Facebook, right, for, for

everybody, in, the, world, probably, uh different, region, will, have, different blockchain, right, it's, just, like, in, China you, have, like, WeChat, right, in, US, you have, like, uh, Facebook, you, know, um, but eventually, uh, social, media, has, become the, thing, for, everyone, in, the, world, to connect, um, so, that's, like, something, uh, I I, really, believe, going, to, happen, in, this cycle, with, like, 100%, of, the, certainty, um and, also, for, exchange, as, well, so, um, so

before, that, right, uh, we, have, like different, like, dominant, parties, in exchange, business, right, we, have mdgs, um, poniac, right, and, then, like binance, right, coinbase, right, in different, time, um, but, now, I, think, in, the next, like, three, years, um, crypto, exchange will, be, also, be, just, like, common, as, like like, the, stock, exchange, we, are, using today, is, going, to, be, uh, with, everyone's

life, so, so, that's, like, um, that's, the thing, I, believe, is, um, it's, very different, from, from, the, last, cycle Justin, I, kind, of, want, to, ask, about, your personal, like, vision, for, yourself, your own, identity, and, also, your, vision, for, uh your, impact, on, on, the, world, like, all, of these, builders, that, I, think, have, lasted the, test, of, time, have, some, sort, of thesis, about, how, crypto, works, and, what it's, going, to, do, for, the, world, and, how it's, going, to, change, the, world, like first, like, what, what, do, you, consider

yourself, to, be, like, an, entrepreneur, an invester, A, World, Builder, uh, and, then also, like, how, would, how, would, you describe, your, role, in, the, broader context, of, like, the, 21st, century, uh, at the, scale, that, like, Tron, and, the, Justin son, Empire, is, it, has, like, a, a, pretty, big footprint, in, the, world, uh, what, do, you want, that, to, do, to, the, world, and, how, do you, see, your, role evolving, yes, uh, I, believe, my, my perspective, for, my, role, um, become, I, will

say, uh, more, humble, uh, after, this, like, 12 Years, Journey, because, I, think, when, I first, like, joined, the, crypto, industry, I I'm, always, like, thinking, like, what, I want, to, do, uh, in, this, industry right, and, what, I, want, the, world, to become, right, so, so, that's, why, I, clearly I, have, a, design, like, how, Trang, protocol going, to, be, and, what's, what's, the, value of, Trang, and, what, what, I, want, to

accomplish, um, but, after, U, this, like, kind of, the, 12, Years, Journey, um, since, I, have been, with, crypto, like, all, the, way, I, I start, to, to, feels, like, I, going, to, be, the role, like, the, the, world, need, me, the, most so, so, basically, um, um, because, I, still want, to, be, a, serious, um, serial entrepreneur, right, so, I, will, start, other business, like, other, thing, happens, on, all

the, blockchains, uh, I, think, I, want, to, be a, part, of, it, um, but, the, first, thing, I will, think, about, is, like, is, our, team, or myself, is, the, the, best, team, to, do, those job, uh, if, not, right, probably, we're, going to, move, to, something, else, um, so, I, won't be, like, 12, years, ago, right, I, just, want to, do, this, right, and, and, I, I, will achieve, this, no, matter, like, who, uh, who

against, it, and, uh, uh, uh, no, matter, what right, but, uh, right, now, I, think, I, my strategy, become, like, where, need, need, me the, most, I, will, be, devoted, most, of, my time, in, those, uh, category, and, I, still fascinating, about, um, crypto, world because, we, see, like, new, scenes, like coming, out, like, basically, every, week, so uh, I, believe, this, is, also, a, very, good signal, uh, to, show, the, energy, and, show, um

show, to, everybody, uh, crypto, is, crypto industry, is, still, very, young, right, so, um probably, I, think, after, uh, 30, years, of development, crypto, going, to, become, like web, two, right, web, three, going, to, become like, Web, Two, there's, nothing, new, I'm probably, going, to, move, to, like, web, four or, web, five, Z, but, I, think, probably, still take, some, time, yeah, I, think, um, Justin it's, a, interesting, comment, I've, kind, of

like, watched, your, character, Arc, over time, and, one, thing, I, would, say, is, um, I personally, I, think, maybe, the, world, would appreciate, a, humble, era, uh, Justin, son, uh because, I, I, would, say, Tron, did, not, start that, way, right, um, I, think, a, lot, of people, listening, to, this, are, coming, in with, the, impression, that, Justin, sun, is, a marketer, marketer, maybe, extraordinaire and, um, started, with, some, of, these, like kind, of, like, very, bombastic, uh, claims and, maybe, we'll, get, to, some, of, the critiques, uh, in, a, in, a, little, bit, but let, let, me, let, me, segue, the, conversation

into, Tron, itself, and, part, of, the, reason we, are, having, this, conversation, with, you is, because, when, you, zoom, out, and, look, at Tron, itself, it, actually, has, traction, and this, may, come, as, a, surprise, it, it, it, C certainly, has, for, me, in, the, last, year, or so, because, um, I've, got, to, admit, like myself, personally, I've, sort, of, dismissed Tron, as, kind, of, like, it's, just, like, I don't, know, what, it, is, I'm, not, really like, it's, like, marketing, there's, not, a lot, there, but, um, the, great, thing, about these, open, blockchain, economies, is, you

can, actually, see, what's, going, on, under the, hood, and, uh, let, me, throw, out, a, few stats, for, for, people, that, might, not, be aware, of, Tron, entering, 2024, from, a, usage perspective, it, very, much, looks, like, Tron is, a, peer-to-peer, right, stable, coin chain, that's, a, ton, of, the, usage, and, uh this, by, the, way, let, me, remind, like, well I, don't, have, to, remind, Bank, list listeners, but, let, me, remind, everybody, in crypto, that, part, of, the, original, vision for, this, thing, was, to, bank, the, unbanked okay, give, people, in, developing, countries

without, a, robust, banking, system, a, way, to use, crypto, to, improve, their, lives, and when, you, look, at, the, stats, it, actually seems, like, Tron, is, doing, some, of, that okay, so, I, mentioned, there, is, more, tether stable, coins, on, Tron, than, ethereum, at the, time, of, recording, there, was, just like, a, recent, flipping, um, there's, near nearly, 20, million, addresses, hold, between $1, and, $100, in, stable, coins, so, these, are small, transactors, these, are, not, whales uh, shuttling, money, between, exchanges, is

in, fact, most, of, the, transactions, on, Tron at, this, point, in, time, do, not, involve centralized, exchanges, um, a, lot, of, the gas, consumed, on, uh, tether, uh, on, Tron, is tether, that's, about, 92%, of, the, gas, and uh, we, just, had, Paulo, who, is, um, the, the CEO, of, tether, on, the, the, podcast, about, a week, ago, we, talked, to, him, about, this, and you, know, he, told, us, in, many, developing countries, where, their, local, currency, and banking, structure, has, has, failed, them they, are, actually, using, Tron, because it's, a, lowcost, transaction, chain, it's

cheaper, than, ethereum, and, so, I, I, I'm wondering, um, Justin, how, you, see, Tron, in 2024, with, with, kind, of, this, traction, is it, um, yeah, what's, it, doing, for, the, world what, what, is, Tron, today, yes, definitely, I think, one, of, the, reason, uh, we, created Tron, is, it's, just, what, want, to, bank, the a, bank, um, because, I, think, most, of, people uh, in, United, States, probably, not, not aware, of, right, um, probably, most, of

people, majority, of, the, people, in, the world, actually, don't, have, bank, account right, uh, because, I, actually, like, live, in in, those, regions, uh, when, I, was, uh, I think, like, 18, years, old, in, China, uh actually, it's, very, hard, at, that, time, to get, a, credit, card, so, so, basically, there is, um, the, banks, don't, want, to, serve, um low, value, customer, right, because, if, they want, to, serve, those, users, they, need, to go, to, those, areas, to, to, to, build, a

branch, uh, which, they, just, don't, want, to do, so, uh, a, large, majority, of, the, Chinese people, don't, have, bank, account, so, it's, a reality, so, so, that's, why, I, think, when, we first, like, create, like, TR, ecosystem, I really, believe, um, blockchain, can, be, and will, be, um, one, of, the, most important, uh, Financial, infrastructure for, uh, developing, countries, I'm, not, like

very, uh, uh, actually, like, bullish, about like, crypto, in, terms, of, like, banking side, in, United, States, because, like, most of, the, US, um, citizens, has, bank, account and, has, been, um, have, them, for, decades right, so, everybody, like, using, check, for for, paying, bills, like, using, credit, card for, paying, bills, but, for, um, the, vast majority, of, the, population, in, China, in

vietnan, in Argentina, in, Turkey, probably, the, first time, they, own, a, crypto, addresses, is, also a, first, time, they, open, even, Financial Services, actually, for, their, whole, life so, um, so, that's, why, um, we, have, seen, like tether, uh, become, one, of, the, core, uh infrastructure, uh, in, Asia, I, think, back to