🎙 Behind Axie Infinity's Engine | Jiho (Layer Zero)

some, people, might, get, the, community rights, and, some, people, might, get, the economy, right, and, some, people, might, get the, scaling, right, some, people, might, get the, art, and, the, gameplay, right, but, i think, putting, it, all, together, is, great where, the, magic, happens welcome, to, layer, zero, player, zero, is, a podcast, of, unscripted, conversations, with the, people, that, make, up, the, ethereum community, crypto, is, built, by, code, but it's, composed, by, people, and, each individual, member, of, the, crypto community, has, their, own, story, to, tell the, cypherpunks, understood, that, the, code they, write, impacts, the, people, that, use

it, and, layer, 0, focuses, on, the, people behind, the, code, because, ethereum, is people, all, the, way, down, and, it, always has, been today, we, are, speaking, with, jiho, from, axi infinity, and, axiom, infinity, might, be, one of, the, first, organizations, that knowingly, is, calling, them, a, nation and, really, really, fits, that, model, and, i really, think, the, axi, nation, is, the, right way, to, understand, what, axi, is, trying, to do and, so, that, makes, jiho, one, of, the, first core, community, leaders, of, the, axi, nation

a, very, um, has, a, very, interesting, vantage point, as, to, how, to, view, communities communities, growing, around, web, 3., i think, as, we, all, know, like all, things, in, web, 3, all, have, communities around, them, everything, that, tends, to work, tends, to, also, have, its, own community and, so, we, discuss, how, the, axi, community has, grown, the, the, ways, that, it, has shaped, over, the, years, during, in, its various, sizes, as, axi, has, progressed, to its, development, we, talk, a, ton, about, what

the, metaverse, is, what, it, means, why people, like, it, and, how, it, will, be, shaped in, the, future and, also, just, some, other, fun, facts, and tidbits, about, jiho, which, i, don't, think you, would, get, anywhere, else, so, let's, go and, start, talking, to, jiho, right, after, we get, to, some, of, these, fantastic, sponsors that, make, the, show, possible, when, you shop, for, plane, tickets, you, probably, use kayak, expedia, or, google, to, compare ticket, prices, so, why, would, you, limit yourself, to, just, one, exchange, when, you trade, crypto, when, you, make, your, trades you, want, to, make, sure, you're, getting, the best, possible, price, on, your, trade, and that's, why, you, should, be, using, matcha

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david, uh, yeah, doing, well, thanks, for having, me, yeah, yeah, of, course, where, are you, in, the, world, right, now, uh, i, am, in uh, puerto, rico, oh, yeah where, are, you, do, you, live, there, i, don't think, you, don't, live, there, do, you, i'm staying, here, for, a, bit, i, i, got, stuck here, after, mediversa, and, you, know, just have, a, lot, of, work, so, i, didn't, want, to want, to, just, stop, traveling, so well, puerto, rico rico's, not, a, bad, place to, get, stuck, at, so, that, must, be, a, vibe there's, a lot, of, crypto, people, uh, down there, anybody, from, maxie, uh, yeah, there are, some, actually, community, members, down here, for, sure, uh, pl, we, play, basketball

go, to, the, gym, together, uh, so, hey, well i'm, sure, you, have, a, axi, friends, all, over the, world, so, no, matter, where, you, get stuck, at, you, can, probably, hang, find, some members, of, the, axi, nation, wherever, you live yeah, that's, that's, one, of, the, best, parts of, the, community, um, so, where, did, you, uh grow, up, let's, go, back, to, your, let's, go back, to, just, like, your, formative, years where, did, you, grow, up, in, the, world so, i, grew, up, i, was, born, in, new, york, and i, grew, up, there, for, the, most, part um yeah, grew, up, gaming, yeah, so, i, yeah, i

grew, up, as, a, gamer, as, a, collector, my, dad is, my, dad's, an, interesting, guy, he's, like he's, a, polymath, man, so, he, has, like, so many, different, interests, right, he, owned a, gallery, as, a, painter, he, collects insects, and, fossils, he's, really, into like, moths, and, butterflies he's, actually, an, attorney, as, as, kind, of as, for, his, profession, so, he's, kind, of like, doing, a, lot, of, different, stuff my, mom, is, korean, she's, like, a, typical tiger, mom, she, was, super, strict so, i, was, always, right, like, trying, to play, games, she, was, always

trying, to, get, me, not, to, play, games, uh, my cousins, are, korean, i'm, half, korean, um, so jiho, is, actually, my, name, uh, my, korean name and, my, cousins, would, bring, over, like starcraft, diablo, world, of, warcraft, it's kind, of, how, i, got, into, gaming, a, bit, uh whatever, game, i, played, my, my, entire school, ended, up, playing, um, for, some reason, i, was, like, the, curator uh, and, yes, i, you, know, got, got, really into, gaming, as, a, kid, i, was, an, only, child so, i, think, like, i, was, you, know, just keeping, myself, occupied, and, trying, you know, kind, of, right, in, the, early, days

right, like, starcraft, that, was, the, first thing, i, ever, did, on, the, internet, and, you could, actually, kind, of, socialize, from your, from, your, bedroom, as, as, a, kid um, yeah, my, mom, sent, me, to, boarding school, because, i, was, way, too, into, wow vanilla, wow, um, and, that's, basically, why i, left, new, york, went, to, new, hampshire yeah, these, are, all, blizzard, games, is that, a, coincidence, or, what's, up, with that, those, are, i, think, a, lot, of, the games, that, really, defined, uh, defined, me i, think, happened, to, be, blizzard, games, um i, was, also, really, into uh, donkey, kong, country, like, during, the

super, nintendo, game, days um zelda, like, ocarina, of, time, i, think, i, i played, through, maybe, 20, 20, plus, times obviously, uh, pokemon, i, still, have, my pokemon, collection, from, when, i, was, a, kid i, was, an, early, adopter i, didn't, know, at, the, time, right, but, i have, a, bunch, of, like, first, editions, and shadow, lists, that, i, was, just, collecting as, a, kid, because, i, wanted, them, like, i would, sell, sharks, teeth, um and, my, drawings, and, stuff, like, that, to scrounge, and, scrounge, up, enough, um, and yeah, apparently, my, my, collection's, worth

quite, quite, a, bit, now, which, is, crazy because, like, that, was, all, yeah, you, know just, collected, by, me, as, a, kid, with without, too, much, capital and, you, was, it, to, uh, play, the, actual pokemon, guard, game, or, was, it, more, about the, collection it, was, more, about, the, flex, i, think, and just, i, have, this, collector's, instinct right, where, i, just there's, some, some, things, that, i, just need, right, and, i, think, it's, similar, to my, dad, i, think, i'm, i, think, it's, genetic i, think, i, inherited, it, from, my, father right, where, my, my, dad, has, cases, on, cases of, butterflies, i, think, he, has, like around, 40, 000

our, house uh, so, i, think, i, just, have, that collector's, gene, so, you, know, i, got really, into, you, know, i, played, the, poke, i played, pokemon, on, game, boy, uh, but, in terms, of, the, card, game, and, i, was, an, only child, so, i, didn't, have, anyone, to, play against, me so, i, would, just, collect, them um, you, know, i, was, always, yeah, like, that wasn't, that, was, right, those, were, in, the days, of, kind, of right, it's, like, if, you, wanted, to, play with, other, people, they, had, to, like, kind of, come, over, to, your, house, or, whatever so, people, would, come, over, to, hang, out but, most, of, the, time, i, was, just, by myself, like, i, was, one, of, the, kids, that bought, two, game, boys, so, i, could, trade

with, myself, um, my, blue, my, red, and, blue version, so, i, could, get, the, 150, right, you couldn't, get, one, that, was, one, of, the genius, aspects, of, pokemon, was, you, needed right, like, you, couldn't, get, all, 150, um in, classic, right, in, the, classic, versions unless, you, actually, like, somehow, traded with, someone, who, had, the, other version, of, the, game, i, guess, like, the yeah, the, loophole, was, that, you, could just, be, both, people did, you, ever, complete, your, pokedex i, think, yeah, i, think, i, had, 150., yeah which, was, your, uh, starter, where's, your

starter, pokemon uh, i, i, picked, charmander i, meant, i'm, i, like, reptiles, like, i, i grew, up having uh, lizards, and uh, like, salamanders, are, not, ripped, up like, amphibians, but, yeah, like, i, always had, frogs, salamanders reptiles, um snakes turtles so, you, so, you, pick, the, yeah, right, got, to pick, the, the, fire, fire, reptile, um, you said, that, you, uh were, like, the, trend, setter, for, your, uh

for, your, school's, games i, want, to, unpack, that, a, little, bit, how'd that, happen, like, why, was, it, a coincidence, or, was, it, just, you, had, the energy, about, the, games, that, you, liked and, that, ended, up, being, enough, what, was there yeah, it's, it's, it's, strange, where right, like, yeah, i, would, you, know, i, want i, just, wanted, people, to, play, with, me, or like, with, diablo, like, i, would, get, people and, right, i, was, like you, know, i, i, wanted, people, to, trade, with on, amicable, terms, or, it's, gonna, you, know kind, of, farm, for, me, i, would, gear, them, up

and, you, know, say, hey, get, me you, know, send, me, some, stuff, later, you know, once, you're, up, and, running um so, yeah, i, don't know, i, don't, know, i don't, know, i, think, i, i, was, just, really into, it, and my, i, think, also, was, like, my, my, uh, my cousins, were, really, they're, korean, they were, like, really, kind, of, ahead, of, the curve, they, would, get, like, the, new blizzard, game, as, soon, as, it, came, out, so for, some, reason, i, was, always, the, one, uh who, would, get, this, stuff, first, um, and also, was, like, also, i, think, my uh, my, birthday, was, right, around, like

where, like, you, know, games, would, launch so, i, would, always, you, know, get, whatever for, my, birthday, and, try, to, spread, it, to the, rest, of, school, so, i, had, people, to play, with a, winter, birthday yeah february, early, february, yeah, okay, uh that, that's, pretty, good, that's, pretty cool, because, like, uh, actually, we'll we'll, go, and, go, into, that, later, uh wha, was, it, um, perhaps, i, mean, you're, kind of, a, charismatic, dude, so, when, you, come to, come, to, school, with, your, games, that you, want, to, talk, about, um

were, were, you, like, a, a, school, socialite like, did, you, like, to, you, just, um like, to, just, share, stuff, with, other people, and, just, happen, to, be, games, or like, what, was, your, role, in, with, your friends, in, school, it, varied, over, time but uh, i, think, like, if, you, ask, me, it's, hard for, me, to, you, know, comment, on, that, but if, you, ask, my, mom, my, mom, will, say, that you, know, everyone, for, some, reason, all the, boys, or, whatever, like, wanted, uh you, know, to, be, my, friend, for, some, reason they, would, try, to, like, impress, me, by playing, games, i, don't, know, i, don't, know what, it, was, about, but

do, you, see, any, of, that, still, being, true in, your, your, time, at, axi, now i, don't, know, like, i, mean, i, think, great like, you, have, an, entire, continent wanting, to, play, with, you, at, the, moment yeah, thinking, back, right, it's, like, it should, have, been, obvious, that, i, think, i could, be, a, good, you, know, a, person, to evangelize, a, game, um, to, spread, a, game, um it's, you, know, it's come, more, into, focus as, things, have, progressed, so, yeah, it's it's it's, been, it's, been, a, crazy, journey, and you, know, i, never, i, never, would, have dreamed, that, i, would, be, you, know involved, in, gaming, as, a, profession, um, i

didn't, know, what, i, want, to, do, with, my life, for, most, of, my, life, right, so, it's only, within, the, last, four, years, or, so that, i've, really, uh, yeah, i, felt, like i've, i've, found, my, calling did, you, ever, have, like, a, entrepreneurial spirit, as, a, kid, or, is, that, also relatively, new, i, think, i, was, uh, so, i, was you, know, selling, sharks, teeth, i, sold candy, in, my, lunch, room, shark's, teeth like, like, we're, talking, about, actual sharks, fossil, sharks, teeth, like, fossil sharks, teeth, like, 10, million, because, my daddy, we, would, collect, fossils, on, the weekend, and, he, would, you, know, he, would let, me, take, you, know, the, ones, that weren't, perfect, and, and, sell, them, to, the

kids, um, so, yeah, i was, all, you, know, i, was kind, of, artistic, as, a, kid, too, i, was, you know selling, my, drawings, i, would, sell, my drawings, and, paintings, to, anyone, that came, into, my, house, like, my, mom's, friends my, tutor people, who, came, over, to, my, dad's, uh who, came, over, to, look, at, my, dad's collection, so, yeah, i, think, like i, i, have, i, think, i'm, a, people, pleaser, uh so, i, i, think, like, right, like, also, giving people, what, they, want, and, having, like some, kind, of, beneficial, two-way

transaction, i, think, makes, me, makes, me happy so, it, wasn't, out, of, like, a, like, a, drive to save, up, for, something, that, you, wanted, to purchase, it, was, more, about, like, the transaction, itself i, think, where, like, there's, a, social element, of, it, but, then, obviously, yeah like, you, know, i, always, was, saving, up, for something, right, my, shadowless, charizard i, saved, up, you, know, a, while, to, be, able to, buy, it, i, think, i, paid, 15, bucks, or maybe, 15, to, 25, bucks, i, think, they're worth, like, 15k, now, uh, oh, my, gosh so

so, i, saved, up, for, a, while, for, that, um, i would, create, my, mom, would, and, i, would, we would, i, would, actually, create, my, own reward, structures, as, well, where, it, was like, oh, if, i, do, something, good, i'll, get a, marble um, and, then, if, i, get 10, marbles, my, mom, would, give, me, like, 10 or, buy, me, a, toy, or, something, like, that so, i, was, just, interested, in, that, kind, of stuff um, but, yeah, i, don't, know, i, would, say, i was, relatively, entrepreneurial, kid, i think, that, there, are, more, entrepreneurs entrepreneurial, kids, out, there, um but, yeah, you, know, i, had, a, little, bit, of

that, in, me, that, sounds, a, little, bit, of, a incentive, gamification, that, you, impose upon, yourself by, your, mom, is, that, is, that, sound, about right yeah, i, would, create, the, incentive structures, that, my, mom, would, use, to, keep me, behaved, yeah and, then, of, course, naturally, this, just lends, itself, into, game, like, game economics, design, later, right, like, is that, is, that, a, direct, one-to-one comparison, or, am, i, reaching, for something, here, yeah, i, think, i, think there's, some, i, think, there's, some parallel, there, yeah, yeah

why, um why, do, you, feel, like, you've, enjoyed, that so, much, like, most, kids, don't, want, to impose, rules, upon, themselves, i, think, it was, like, i, wanted, i, wanted, something, and i, wanted, uh yeah, i, wanted, like, a, clear, path, towards getting, it, um so, yeah, it, was, kind, of, like, negotiation strategy, i, think, with, with, my, mom, as well, where um, yeah, um, let's, see, do, you, think, like do, do, you, like, this, sense, did, you, like the, sense, of, achievement was, that, about, it, like, uh, you, know victory, unlocked

kind, of, yeah, yeah, i, think, i, think, i, do like, transparent, reward, systems, i, think um i'm, you, know, tend, to, think, about, that, a lot, with, it, actually, you, know, not, just within, the, game, you, know, the, game economy, i, have, like, a, you, know, i, would say, you, know, relatively, small, role, with but, also, you, know, the, creators, and, the in, the, community, and, how, every, everyone kind, of, aligns, incentives uh with, each, other, for, sure, i, find, that, i find, it, fascinating, right, i, think, that's actually, right, like my understanding, of, web, 3, because, i, come you, know, i'm, not, i, don't, come, from, a technical, background, um, right, i, come

from, a, gaming, uh, background, the collector's, background, right, so uh, for, me, right, like, the, well, the, huge unlock, that, i, see, with, web3, is, you, know figuring, out, how, to, align, incentives, um and, create, these, kind, of, sustainable economic, engines, to, these, open, source technologies, and so, that's, that's, like, a, lot, of you, know, how, i'm, looking, at, the, space right, now so, from, for the, out, the, onlooker, the, people, that aren't, like, diving, into, axiory, infinity every, single, day, and, kind, of, just, like knows, that, it, exists, and, that, it's

extremely, vibrant, your, role, in, actually kind, of, just, looks, like, this, great community, manager, like, this, great community, leader, who's, just, like part, of, just, like, injecting, vibes, and energy, into, into, the, community, would, you a, a, do, you, agree, with, that, uh, take, and then, b, if, you, for, somebody, that, would like, to, actually, peer, deeper, into, the scenes, what, do, you, actually, do sure, so, i, i, think, i, think, that's, fair, uh so, i, actually, come, from, the, community which, some, people, uh, might, not, realize or, remember, in, many, cases, so, right, like

i, discovered, actually, just, like, a, lot, of people, just, like, much, earlier, right where, i, was, one, of, the, first, i, don't know, a couple, hundred, people, in, the discord, uh, it, was, very, small, there, were around, you, know, maybe, five, to, ten, people there, to, kind, of, welcome, me, and, walk, me through, and, you, know, i, was, i, was, super excited, about, it, because, right, like, i, i was, i, wasn't, an, early, cryptokitty community, member, right, and, there, was always, there, was, this, notion, like, hey like, we, need, to, be, able, to, do, more, with these, things, so, it's, not, just, about breeding, and, selling, them, right, like there, has, to, be, some, emotional, value there, has, to, be, something, fun, that, we can, do, so, it's, not, just, us, dumping, cats

on, each, other, right so, we, kind, of, you, know, there, was, a little, bit, of, that, already, uh, that, the space, kind, of, understood, and, you, know, so i, i, you, know, i fell, in, love, with, the, art, and, the, fact that, there, was, a, you, know, this, road, map towards, a, playable, game, um, that, seemed achievable, um, you, know, that, really, that really, resonated, with, me, so, i, just started, you, know, i, just, came, in, and started, doing, all, the, things, that, i, i thought, i, could, uh help, with, right, so, like, you, know, helped write, um, the, original, white, paper um, i, started, doing, a, lot, of, the

announcements, and, you, know, yeah community, building, right, where, in, the early, days, of, doing, unscalable, things like, getting, to, know, everyone, in, the community, sharing, the, vision, repeatedly so, people, understand, like, you, know, what we're, building, and, why um so, yeah, i, think, i, think, like, a, lot, of that, is, still, applicable, today, where um, you, know, i, do, a lot, of, stuff, around the, community, and, the, economy, i, think it's, very, interlinked, right, because right, ultimately, what's, what, creates this, sustainable, economic, engine, is uh, right, that, people, are, spending, right

for, fun, or, for, status, within, the ecosystem, right, that's, um, that's, what's kind, of, subsidizing, right, the, economy and, this, ability, for, people, to, actually earn was, it, as, simple, as, just, understanding axi, to, be, cryptokitties, but, with, a, game or, was, there, extra, you, know, magic, sauce that, that, compelled, you, in, addition, to that yeah, i, think that, was, part, of, it, right, like, we, were just, iterating, right, like, we, you, know, i think, a, lot, of, it, was, some, people, saw axey, as, a, fork, of, cryptokitties, right like, the, marketplace, contract, is, very

similar, the, breeding, contract, is, very similar, uh, and, right, a, lot, of, the, early community, members, right, like, you, know kind, of, uh gave, up, on, cryptokitties, and, came, over and, came, over, to, axi, so, right, there, was a, little, bit, of, that, yeah, a, lot, a lot, of people, who, got, it, immediately, were, like hey, like, we, there, was, three, weeks, where we, could, breed, cryptokitties, and actually, make, money, right, like, how, could this, you, know, potentially, last, forever um, so, i, think, a, lot, of, the, people, who are, thinking, through, that, framework, were actually, able, to, understand, actually yeah and, then, uh

was, it, what, was, it, in, equal, parts, of like, the, fun, of, the, game, and, or, with, the token, tokenomics, the, breeding, or, was, it were, you, actually, thinking, like, oh, this is, actually, a, really, fun, game, i, i'm excited, to, play, this, or, was, it, more about, just, like, oh, there's, this, fun, like weird, breeding, economic, system, behind, it like, was, it, was, it, both, or, was, it, was one, really, compelling, i, think, it was, a combination, right, like, yeah, the, idea that, right, like, you, would, actually, need to, spend, time, in, game, to, earn, the, right to, breed, i, think, that, was, like, right like, one, thing, that, just, locked, into place, and, and, seemed, to, make, sense, right

where, you, could, basically, right, like, the problem, with, cryptokitties, was, there's this, hyperinflation, because, people, could just, like, you, know, keep, reading, uh, at will, whereas, right, the, idea, that, okay, if you, actually, sunk, human, time, effort, and skill, and, to, earn, the, right, to, be, able to, breed, right, this, would, you, know, act as, a uh, as, a, way, to, basically, right, back, each axi, with, with, real, human, time, and, effort so, i, think, that, was, a, lot, of, it, right and, then, yeah, people, were part, of, it, was, just, the, community, like people, were, willing, to, help, people understood, that, this, was, a, community driven, thing, they, were, really, helpful

they, were, making, awesome, memes um, they, were, making, awesome, you, know they, were, has, we, had, some, initial, early video, content, creators, and, stuff, like that, so, um, there's, awesome, art, um, so yeah, i, think, it's, you, know, it, was, a combination, right, of, the, community, and and right, the, art, and, what, promised, to, you know what, was, looking, like, it, would, be, a pretty, fun, game, so, i, i, i, want, to, unpack there's, so, many, things, i, want, to, unpack i, want, to, unpack, first, off, the, the community, aspect, of, it, because, isn't also, even, though, it's, axi, is, like, is, is more, than, a, community, because, this, hey

the, size, of, it, is, so, incredibly, large it's, like, you, guys, correctly, in, my, mind call, it, the, axi, nation, especially because, you, have, your, own, economy, but isn't, the, community, at, the, very, very basic, level, also, in, competition, with each, other, right, like, isn't, it, isn't, it isn't, actually, kind, of, like, a, race, for resources, and, so, like, yes, it's, very, like collaborative, and, the, discord, is, very like, community, oriented, but, also, isn't it, competitive, too there, there, is, a, lot, of, right, at, its base, level, too, right, like the, mid, uh, right, there's actually, is, a

right, like, in, terms, of, the, current product, is, a, card, battle, game, where, you battle, these, pets, together, in, pvp battles, there's, a, leaderboard, right, um but, i, think, there's, there's, also, right this, this, collaborative, spirit, which, i think, is, interesting, right, like, how, do you, turn, like, what's, you, know, right, now a, pvp, experience, in, terms, of, the gameplay, and, why, is, it, so, collaborative right, because, there, is, right, to, space, uh ownership, right, where, everyone, owns, axes right, a, lot, of, people, own, access, tokens right, um so, so, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, right there's, there's, a, little, bit, of

competition, and, it's, a, friendly competition, as, well, which, kind, of creates, some, camaraderie, and, bonding, um but, also, right, there's, this, pve component, the, pve, component, is, like everyone, in, the, axi, community, against the, world, who, doesn't, take, us, seriously who, thinks, that, nft, games, are, never gonna, work, right, we've, always, had, that kind, of, underdog, chip, on, our, shoulder and, i, think, it's, really, important, that we, maintain, that, even, as, we, get, larger did, you, just, use, pve where, the, e, is, not, just, the, game, that you're, making, but, the, whole, entire universe

is, that, what, you, just, did i, think, right, i, think, degen, once, talked about, that, right, into, like, life, in, terms of, like, pve, p, and, pve, so, um, yeah it's, an, interesting, like, tool, to, uh rally, a, community, behind, because, like there's, no, better, like, enemies, that exist, to, rally, a, community, than, like, the faceless, ones, right, and, especially, the gargantuan, faceless, ones, like, oh, yeah like, we're, gonna, take, on, everything uh, can, you, just, unpack, that, a little, bit more, about, the, significance, is, that, is that, like, an, idea, that, you, have, or, is that, more, like, a, codified, part, of, the

axi, culture, about, how, like, oh, yeah, we're going, to, take, on, the, world, or, is, that, is that, just, kind, of, the, vibe, that, you, get after, you, read, between, the, lines i, think it's, maybe, half, right, like, we, saw, in, the early, days, right, that, the, community, was kind, of, rallying, against, always, right they, had, some, kind, of, something something, or, some, someone, to, rally against, right, in, the, early, days, we, kind of, had, like, this, beef, with, the cryptokitty, community, where, they, thought oh, like, this, is, just, a, cryptokitty, clone right, they're, never, gonna, do, anything, um right, so, yeah, there's, always, been, i

think, great, like, and, from, the, early, days we, saw, that, that, was, like, you, know, a good, strategy, and, i, think, it's, also, true that, right, like, people, because, axi, is, so cute, i, think, uh they, don't, take, it, seriously, um, and, it's like, i, think, it's, just, been, us, proving right, the, doubters, and, the, haters, wrong like, month, after, month, uh, over, the, over this, journey, and, i, think, right, that's like, part, yeah, it's, part, you, know, it's part, of, the, fun, i, think, um, and so, yeah, i, think, it's, part, of, our, culture and, i, think, it's, also, something, that, you know, the, community, leaders, not, just myself, right, community, leaders

understand, is, is, is, an, effective strategy, uh, for, getting, everyone, on, the same, page i, want, to, keep, going, down, this, route, but there's, a, question, i, have, that, i, think if, i, don't, ask, it, now, i, might, lose, it and, that, is, um, a, lot, of, the, games, that, i play, like, diablo, both, two, and, three included, uh, borderlands, comes, to, mind, a lot, of, these, games, and, just, uh, end, up all, in, the, same, state, which, is, like grinding, uh, and, me, personally, that's kind, of, when, i, like, tap, out, of, the, game it's, like, okay, i'll, go, through, level zero, through, like, like, 99, but, once, i'm

at, 99, like, i'm, out, like, i'm, done, with the, game, like, i, don't, want, to, grind, the same, things, over, and, over, and, over, again uh, have, you, have, you, guys, thought, about this, actually, and, how, have, you, like, keep kept, people, engaged, post, grind, like, once you, get, to, the, grinding, grinding, stage how, do, you, get, keep, people, entertained yeah, i, mean, i, i, think, obviously, like, the fact, that, you, have, ownership, of, the things, that, you're, grinding, for, i, think uh, you, know, helps, right, where, you, can potentially, right, convert, it, into, into something, that's, helping, you, in, real life, i, think, that, all, games, with, staying

power, have, right, like, basically had, an, interesting, social, elements, uh to, the, ecosystem, or, right, with, wow, wow guilds, right, there, are, people, who, play wow not, because, they, find, wow, enjoying, but because, all, their, friends, that, they've met, online, are, playing, wow, so, it's, like if, they, quit, wow, they're, going, to, lose all, their, friends, right, so, the, the social, the, social, systems, are, really important, and yeah, i, think, like, right, with, axi, right it's, like, people they, just, want, they, love, being, part, of the, community, they, love, learning, about

web3, there's, always, something, fun, to look, forward, to, right, like, we're constantly, iterating, and, building, new experiences, on, top, of, the, axis, right like, we're, the, the, current, product, is actually, our, second, battle, second version, of, the, battle, system, we're coming, out, with, the, third, version, of, the battle, system, so, everyone's, like, like, we have, this, like, 1v3, meme, um, stuff, like that, right, and, then um, yeah, it's, just, like, we're, building out, in, public, so, people, feel, like they're, building, together, that, they're collaborating, together, that, everyone, you know, that, there, are, these, connections and, it's, just, far, more, than, a, game, right

it's, it's, a, place, to, have, fun, to, bond with, each, other, to, flex, your, crypto, uh kind, of, extravagance, um, so, it, has, it, has a, it's, actually, is, rewarding, right so, people, ask, always, ought, to, come, to this, topic, right, it's, like, is, actually fun, right, and, i've, actually, we've, talked to, you, and, i've, listened, to, some, of, like the thinking, from, the, founder, of, eve, online and, right, and, he, talks, about, it, is, like right, like people, talk, about, fun, but, actually, what games, should, ultimately, strive, to, be, is

to, be, rewarding, in, the, same, way, that, we find, our, lives, rewarding, right, so, if, you talk, to, a any, random, person, right, they, might, they probably, right, like, they, might, not, find their, life, fun, all, the, time, on, a day-to-day, basis, right, that, might, not actually, even, be, good, be, good, right, fun is, probably, a, poor, thing, to, optimize, for right, but, ultimately, most, people, find their, lives, worth, living, and, and rewarding, uh, through, through, different uh you, know, to, different, forms, of, kind, of, i guess, value, if, that, makes, sense, there's right, there's, there's, social, there's

economic, um, right, there's, building, a legacy, right, and, i, think, and, and, i, think the, thing, about, axi, is, that, it's, it's actually, right, like, harnessing, this, kind of, like idea, of, ikigai, right, where you're, you're people, feel, like, they're, part, of, this movement, they're, building, something that's, uh, substantive, and, important, and yeah, they're, having, fun, and, making friends, while, doing, it, there's, a, line that, i, remember joe, rogan, saying, once, upon, a, time, where he, was, recounting, the, story, of, this, uh

person, that, he, met, that, had, this, like kind, of, basic, like, production, behind, the scenes, drop, at, some, like, like, live, music venue, i, don't, know, is, irrelevant, um but, and, it's, like, kind, of, this, normal guy, but, all, but, he, was, like, in, some, like insane, top, 10, tier, world, of, warcraft player, and, like, the, line, that, this individual, left, with, joe, rogan, was, that i, am, such, a, nobody in, the, real, world, but, in, world, of warcraft, i'm, like, one, of, the, biggest celebrities, uh, and, like, joe, rogan, was

harping, on, the, fact, that, the, guy, was talking, about, how, he's, nothing, in, the real, world, and, like, the, contrast, that, he was, giving, was, like, oh, yeah, he, gave, up he, gave, up, his, real, world, identity, in form, of, this, like, fake, world, of, warcraft identity, and, he, just deposited, all, of, his, like, you, know mental, energy, and, mental, motivation, into this, fake, world, this, like, this, world, of warcraft, world, but, i, i, think, when, you uh, kind, of, uh, take, a, context, of, what, you just, stated, where, like, no, world, of warcraft's, not, supposed, to, be, fun, it's supposed, to, be, rewarding, and, then, also

we, talk, about integrating, assets, into, things, like ethereum, where, you, know, there's, usdc, on ethereum, which, is, connected, to, the federal, reserve, and, how, can, that, be, fake right, and, so, like, you, know, the, game, the thing, the, assets, that, you, find, in, your game, are, just, one, steps, away, from, being the, the, reserve, currency, of, of, the, world how, can, that, be, fake, at, all, uh, and, so like, the, the, takeaway, that, i, just, got out, from, what, you, just, said, is, that, you know with, games, not, supposed, to, be, fun they're, supposed, to, be, rewarding, like we're, actually, trying, to, recreate the, real, world, but, in, the, digital, world

right, we're, not, we're, not, trying, to, make we, are, not, trying, to, make, the, digital world, fun, you're, trying, to, make, the digital, world, real is, it, i, think, that's, also, that's, also, a functioning, definition, of, the, metaverse right, is, totally, right right, this, this, idea, that, our digital, identities, our, digital, items, our digital, experiences, and, lives, are starting, to, merge and, right, like, become, just, as, important and, just, as, substantive, and, rewarding, as our, lives, in, the, physical, world yeah, i, think, there's, a

hopefully, a, transition, happening, where like, games, are, no, longer, just, like supposed, to, just, serve, you, like, dopamine on, a, platter, but, they're, supposed, to serve, you, emotions, of, all, types, like responsibility, like, the, the, things, that you, would, find, out, in, the, real, world like, loss, i, think, there's, a, big component, of, eve, online, which, is, loss where, like, you, go, and, you, build, your ships, and, then, like, you, get, like hijacked, by, pirates, and, you, lose, all, of your, stuff like, that's, that's, a, real, emotion, that you're, going, to, feel, as, a, result, of, that and, it's, not, fun, at, all, but, it's, very very, real

yeah, the, you, know, the, mo, right, the, more the, sustainable game, economies, right, are, going, to, mimic uh, parts, of, life, that, we, don't, like, um in, interesting, ways, and, that's, also right, it's, like, as someone, who, works, on, games, right, that's something, to, think, about, is, like, right like, how, close, to you, know, everyday physical, life, do, you, want, these, games, to be, um, and, what, is, there, is, there, right is, there, some, hybrid, that, is, like, a, nice i, think, uh, middle, zone, that, it, might, be you, know, preferable, um

so, yeah, it's, it's, i, think, that's, where, a lot, of, the, design, space, is there's, another, line, that, i, hear, also from, also, on, joe, rogan, but, this, one, came from, elon, musk, where, he, was, talking about, why, instagram, did, bitter, but, uh has, got, bigger, than, twitter, and, elon musk, said, it's, limbic, resonance, as, in, uh instagram, resonates, with, people's, like more, reptilian, brain, much, better, than twitter, does, twitter, makes, you, think, it makes, you, like, actually, use, your, brain instagram, doesn't, you, just, you, just, vibe in, instagram, makes, you, feel, emotions, uh and, so, maybe, the, version, of, the