🎙️ 72 - The Power of Mimetic Desire | Luke Burgis

welcome, to, bank, lists, where, we, explore the, frontier, of, internet, money, and internet, finance, this, is, how, to, get started, how, to, get, better, and, how, to front, run, the, opportunity, i'm, ryan, john adams, i'm, here, with, david, hoffman, and we're, here, to, help, you, become more bankless, david, what, an, episode really, cool, lens, on, crypto, mimetic desire, what, did, we, cover, today, we brought, on, luke, burgess, who, wrote, this book, wanting, the, power, of, memetic, desire and, this, came, on, my, radar, when, i, was listening, to, luke, on, hidden, forces, the

hidden, forces, podcast, we, had, a, dimitri kofinas, on, that, is, a, past, episode, and, i immediately, knew, that, we, needed, to, get this, guy, on, bank, list, because, he's talking, about, some, of, these, very, core fundamental, things, that, we, talk, about, on bank, list, at, times but, in, a, different, lens, and, also, i, think luke, luke, talks, about, it, just, in, a little, bit, more, clear, and, articulate, way the, conversation, of, what, mimetic, desire is, is, both, important, for, anyone, anywhere to, understand, but, it's, especially important, in, crypto, where, some, of, these

assets, are particularly, valued, by, reflexivity, or, by group, think, or, by, collective, psychology um we, all, know, in, the, world, of, crypto, you survive, by, understanding, being multiple, different, disciplines, this, is, a very, multi-disciplinary industry, uh, and, uh, the, power, of, memetic desire, transcends, all, disciplines, all academic, studies, and, it, applies, to crypto, in, so, many, different, respects, and so, we, brought, luke, on, to talk, about, and, and, teach, the, bankless

nation, what, is, memetic, desire, how, does it, impact, our, lives, and, then, we, frame, it in, a, crypto, conversation, in, the, second half, of, the, show yeah, david, early, on, you, know, we've, we've always, since, we're, starting, bank, lists we've, known, that, memes, are, important, to this, entire, industry, and, so, early, on, we did, an, episode, on, on, memes, that, was, sort of, live, but, it, didn't, have, like, a, ton, of research, it, was, just, kind, of, crypto natives, take, on, on, memes, right, it's, just kind, of, you, and, i, we've, always, wanted, to return, to, this, concept, of, memes, now, this

isn't, quite, like, this, isn't, just, memes because, memetic, desire is, not, memes, but, it, is, related, to, memes and, it's, almost, the, energy, that, propels memes, but, oh, my, god, it's, an, important concept, like, again, one, of, those fundamental, concepts, that, if, you, don't understand, memetic, desire, you, probably don't, understand, crypto, you, might, think you, understand, crypto, but, you, actually don't, and, i'm, just, like, this, is, an episode, that, i'm, going, to, think, about, a lot, because, the, implications, aren't, just

like, many, things, we, cover, on, vegas aren't, just, crypto, implications, these are, like, life, implications, right, and, how society's, organized, implications, and like, how i'm, going, to, be, thinking, about, this episode, because, it's, going, to, be, one, of those, things, where, i, start, to, see, it everywhere, right, and, then, i'll, have, to make, decisions, with, this, new, mental model uh, framework, and, see, how, i'm, being influenced, how, my, memetic, desires, are being influenced, and, make, more, rational decisions, as, a, result, but

i, think, this, is, going, to, be, a, key cornerstone, episode, for, you, guys, and it's, definitely, a, key, mental, model, and concept, that, we're, going, to, keep returning, to, you, on, bankless, it, is, that important right, so, bankless, nation, i, want, you, to step, into, the, side, of, uh, the, matrix, and get, ready, to, pull, that, cord, right, out, of the, back, of, your, head, because, that's what, this, episode, feels, like, it's, one, of those, things, like, if, this, feels, very much, on, par, with, our, vitaliks, episode, on legitimacy, which, we, bring, up, is, actually one, of, the, themes, of, this, show, also, felt

like, the, josh, rosenthal, episode, where we're, really, just, zooming, out, and, and viewing, this, thing, from, a, very, very holistic, perspective, and, that, really helps, set, the, foundations, to, how, to operate, inside, this, industry, but, like you, said, also, just, live, your, life, this is, just, good, life, information, it, just also, so, happens, that, crypto, is, also, good life, information, and, it, applies, to crypto, just, as, well, as, it, does, life david, quick, prediction, i, think, luke, is going, to, go, crypto, native, i, think, he's going, to, become, a, member, of, the, bankless nation, he's, super, open-minded, about, it

you, guys, should, stay, listen, to, the, end make, sure, you, hear, luke's comments, when, we, ask, them, the, question of, what, do, you, think, uh, about, crypto super, insightful, there, too, all, right guys, well, let's, get, into, the conversation, but, before, we, do, we, want, to thank, the, sponsors, that, made, this episode, possible, balancer, is, a, powerful platform, for, flexible, automated, market makers, typical, amms, just, have, two, tokens inside, of, one, liquidity, pool, which, can lead, to, fractured, liquidity, across, the many, pairs, in, d5, with, balancer, you, can access, the, full, power, of, multiple, tokens

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came, to, our, attention, after, his appearance, in, the, hidden, forces, podcast we, wanted, to, get, luke, on, to, explain this, mimic, desire, concept, which, is, that kind, of, the, base, of, a, lot, of, things, in crypto, maybe, a, lot, of, things, in, life maybe, everything, in, life, actually, when you, dig, deep, enough, uh, and, we, want, to relate, that, to, the, bankless, journey, as well, luke, it, is, fantastic, to, have, you how, are, you, doing, today, hey, guys, i'm doing, really, well, thanks, for, having, me on, man, we, have, so, much, to, dig, into

because, when, dave, and, i, stumbled, across this, this, concept, of, memetic, desire, we just, immediately, saw, so, many, things, in crypto, through, which, are, kind, of, like different, or, or, could, be, seen, through this, lens uh, and, uh, could, help, people, who, are investing, in, crypto, buying, crypto, on, the bankless, journey, in, general, and, we, want to, kind, of, divide, this, into, two, two, acts or, two, pieces, here, luke, if, if, you, could help, us, with, that, the, first, is, we, want to, understand, this, concept, that, is, core to, your, book, this, concept, that, you, call memetic, desire, there's, another, related

concept, around, memes, that, we've, talked about, on, on, bank, list, we, want, to, like talk, about, those, two, things, how, they're related, how, they're, different and, then, we, want, to apply um the, lens, of, memetic, desire, to, some concepts, in, crypto, concepts, like, money the, social, coordination, game, of, money concepts, like, markets, concepts, like, nft these, concepts, that, exist, in, the traditional, world, but, also, exist, in, an accelerated, way, in, crypto, certainly, in, a digital, way, uh, something, we, want, to understand, so, that, part, one, and, the, part

two, uh, you, game, for, that, you, ready, for that, i'm, game, let's, do, it, all, right, man let's, start, with, this, memetic, desire what, the, heck is, this, what, is, memetic, desire so, it, starts, with, mimesis, this, is, the key, word, mimesis, is, or, mimetic m-i-m, so, it, comes, from, mime, or, mimicry so, this, is, different, than, meme or, mimetics, which, is, m-e-m, so, memetic, is just, a, fancy, word, for, imitation, right, it comes, from, the, greek, word, nimistai, which

means, to, imitate human, beings, are, as, aristotle, recognized 2, 500, years, ago, by, far, the, most imitative, creatures, in, the, world, we, are freaky imitators, we, imitate, language, facial expressions, uh, social, norms, in, fact, if we're, not, good, imitators, things, get awkward, really, really, fast, so, imitation is, foundational, to, what, it, means, to, be human, so, we, are, memetic, creatures, that just, is, to, say, that, we're, imitative

what, rene, gerard, discovered, he, was, a french, academic, who, wrote, did, most, of his, work, in, the, in, the, 60s, through, the 80s is, that, if, we're, so, mimetic, and, if, we imitate, all, of, these, other, things, it would, make, sense, that, we, also, imitate the, very, desires, of, other, people, too, so he, coined, the, phrase, mimetic, desire uh so, humans, have, these, powers, of abstraction so, unlike, animals, which, also, engage, in imitation they, engage, in, rituals, like, when, one

gorilla, stands, up, and, beats, his, chest another, gorilla, will, do, the, same, thing they, imitate, at, the, superficial, level what, gerard, calls, the, level, of representation, they, can, imitate superficial, things we can, imitate, interior, motives and, actions, and, things, that, are, go, all the, way, down, to, the, level, of, desires like, we, can, intuit, what, other, people want, and, we, imitate, them, almost, always subconsciously so, other, people's, desires, legitimize, and

give, social, proof, to, our, own, and, make things, valuable, or, less, valuable, now there, have, been, crazy, studies, about, this like, babies that, are, 18, to, 18, months, old, to, two years, old can, look, at, an, adult taking, some, action and, intuit, the, motivations, or, the desires, underneath, the, surface, level, of the, adult's, action and, then, imitate, the, adult's, desire, not the, adult's, external, action, so, one, of the, famous, studies, with, this, was, in, an

adult, goes, into, a, room, full, of, very young, little, babies, toddlers, and, he's got, like, a, toy, dumbbell, and, he, starts, to pretend, like, he, wants, to, pull, the styrofoam, ends, off, of, the, dumbbell, but he, kind, of, fails, and, he, can't, quite, do it, they, leave, the, room and, nine, times, out, of, ten, the, babies pick, up, the, dumbbell, and, they, know, what the, adult, was, trying, to, do, they, just immediately, pull, it, apart, so our, levels, of, imitation, go, very, deep, to abstract, desires, of, other, people and, we're, constantly, reading, and, taking

social, cues, based, on, what, other, people want, and, allowing, that, to, influence, what we, want, but, that, is, almost, entirely pre-conscious, or, subconscious, so, gerard identified, this, mimetic, nature, of, the human, person, it's, just, how, we, are, we're just, memetic, creatures, biologically, this stuff's, hard, wired, in, it's, also hardwired, in, and, we, know, that, our, brain has, mirror, neurons, in, it, so, when, we, see somebody, else, do, something, like, eat, an ice, cream, cone the, neurons

fire, in, our, brain, that, would, be, the, same neurons, that, would, fire, if, we, were eating, the, ice, cream, cone so, you, know, we, we, see, external, things and, it, triggers, this, memetic, response neurologically, and, and, does, things, and and, kicks, hormones, in, in, going, so, yes, i mean, this, goes, down, to, the, level, of, a biology, it's, hardwired, into, us, the difference, between, us, and, animals, is that, we, have, these, powers, of, abstraction so, we're, talking, about, things, like crypto, and, lifestyles, and, career, goals

um, it, also, comes, into, play, with, these things, too, and, that's, where, it, gets really, interesting i, think, a, really, important, point, and when, ryan, ryan, did, the, intro, he, talked about, how, mimetic, desire, is, a, heart, of the heart, of, the, industry, that, we, operate, in the, heart, of, crypto, but, then, also, zooms out, and, it's, actually, at, the, heart, of everything, i, think, it's, a, really important, point, to, to, drive, home, is, is that, babies, when, they, are, born, at, day zero they, are, geared, up, to, do, one, thing really, above, just, beyond, like, living, and

having, a, beating, heart, is, to see, what, other, people, are, doing, and, try and, distill, down, as, to, what, their, goals are, what, their, objectives, are and, so, if, there's, one, thing, that, babies can, do, when, they, come, out, of, the, womb, is that, look, they, can, look, at, other, people and, understand, at, a, very, deep, like subconscious, level, the, goals, and intentions, of, others, and, that's, actually one, of, the, ways, that, babies, and, and young, people, like, growing, up, that's, the scaffolding, that, they, have, to, become, a human, being, is, that, they, they, use, the

understanding, of, other, people, and, what other, people, want, as, a, way, as, a, model for, operating, in, the, world, and, so, the fact, that, it, comes, out, at, day, one indicates, the the, how, far, down, in, the, basement, of, the human, brain this, this, effect, goes, and, therefore naturally, because, it's, because, it's, at day, one, of, the, human, body, and, the, human brain, of, course, it's, in, every, single thing, that, we, talk, about, and, discuss, as as, adults, and, to, some, degree, it's, also suppressed, like, it's, not, really, a

conscious, thing, that, we, we, see, as, adults it's, just, something, that, we, act, out, and it's, uh, and, this, is, why, naturally, uh, you came, to, onto, our, radar, when, you, were, on the, hidden, forces, podcast, talking, about the, hidden, forces, that, dictate, the, world it's, this, this, power, of, memetic, desire is, the, substrate, that, we, all, live, in it's, the, air, that, we, breathe, it's, the water, that, we, swim, in, yet, we, don't really, identify, it, really, anywhere, it's the, base, layer, it's, it's, layer, zero, um and, we, can, talk, about, that, later, because i, think, there, are, some, other, layers, and

we, can't, really, understand, the, other layers, until, we, understand, layer, zero and, two, interesting, points, on, that, you say, from, day, one, babies, are, imitating it's, actually, from, like, t, minus, three months, we, know, they're, imitating, during the, third, trimester, while, they're, in, the womb, they, can, hear, the, intonations, of their, mother's, voice, so, the, second, that they're, born they're, already, imitating, the, way, that their, their, mother, spoke, in, their, cries so, chinese, babies, cry, differently, than german, babies, because, it's, a, tonal language, and, german, isn't, quite, so, tonal

so, that's, how, deep, it, goes, even, before they're, born, they're, imitating, from, the womb from, the, womb, and, we, know, that, here's another, really, interesting, point, about this babies, imitate, facial, expressions, and follow the, eyes, of, their, of, their, parents, from the, minute, they're, born, but, they, only, do that, with, humans, they, only, imitate humans, not, uh, robots, not, animals, they seem, to, sense, that, oh, these, people, are like, me, and, are, therefore, worth imitating, i, think, that's, a, fascinating point, that, we, we, somehow, like, mimesis, or

mimetic, desire, is, something, that actually, connects, us, together, as, human beings, yeah, that, that, point's, super interesting, a, book, we, we, talked, about, a lot, on, bankless, is, uh, yuval, harare's book, it's, called, sapiens, right, and, he makes, the, point, that, like, the, thing, that separates, human, beings, from, animals, is our, ability, to, coordinate our, ability, to, share, mental, stories themes, tell, stories, but, ultimately, our ability, to, coordinate, that, is, our superpower, and, if, you, think, about, um

you, know, mimetics, and, our, ability, to, to mimic, that, is, something, that, uh, is incredibly, powerful, it's, given, our species, the, ability, to socially, coordinate, at, levels, the animals, the, animal, kingdom, does, not, have that, is, the, cornerstone, of, all, of, our technology, from, social, technology, to like, hard, technology, to, things, like, the internet, to, everything, that, we've, built up, over, time, this, is, a, power for, humanity, if, you, will but, it's, also, kind, of, like, a

to, use, dungeons, and, dragons, terminology it's, kind, of, chaotic, neutral, because, it is, a, power, but, it's, a, power, that, can, be used, for, good, things uh, but, it's, also, a, power, that, can, be used, for, bad, things, for, for, tearing, down is, that, sort, of, how, you, see, it, as, it's just, a, superpower, that, humans, have, we have, to, recognize, it, but, like whether, it's, good, or, bad, is, kind, of dependent, on, context that's, a, great, way, to, think, about, it it's, a, double-edged, sword, i, think, we have, to, have, like, a, real, ambivalence towards, memetic, desire, because, it, can, be

used, for, good, and, it, can, tend, to lead, us, into, conflict, and, rivalry, when we, don't, realize, that, it's, happening, so yes, it's, an, incredible, power, it's, kind of, like, the, sexual, powers, right, uh, they can, be, used, for, good, they, can, be, used for, for, bad, they, can, get, people, into trouble, like, pretty, much, most, of, the human, faculties, that, we, have, can, go, and can, go, in, both, directions, and, the, medic desires, is, the, same, thing, how, come, this doesn't, show, up, on, maslow's, hierarchy, of needs, than, luke maslow's, hierarchy, of, needs, is

interesting, so you, know, maslow didn't, seem, to be, concerned, with the he, was, focused, on, human, needs, and, i don't, think, he, understood, the, universe of, desire, and, and, kind, of, the, structure of, human, desire, that, rene, gerard identified um if, you, look, at, maslow's, hierarchy, of needs, it, assumes, like, a, teleology, right of, like, things, that, a, human, needs

and, we, just, kind, of, like, once, we, once, we knock, some, out, we, just, kind, of, move, on to, the, next, ones, and, there's, this, very like, clean, progression, as, we, move towards, the, top but, in 2021, 2021 you, know, we, live, in, a, world, where it's, really, dominated less, i, mean, there's, there's, more, models of, desire, as, gerard, calls, them, than, ever before, so, we, have, to, take, a, step, back because, i, i, don't, think, i, can, explain the, difference, between, maslow's hierarchy, and, gerard's, non-hierarchy, of

desire, without, understanding, like, the way, that, that, gerard, said, desire, works and, by, the, way, for, those, that, aren't familiar, with, this, i, just, bring, this, up because, this, is, kind, of, psych, 101, stuff you, know, some, of, you, listening, probably learned, this, in, in, high, school, as, well but, maslow's, hierarchy, of, needs, is, like just, this, triangle, the, base, layer, of, the pyramid, of, the, triangle, is, psychological uh, no physiological, needs, like, food, water warmth, and, rest, that, sort, of, thing, and then, it, kind, of, scales, up to, things, that, uh, are, less, basic, needs

and, more, psychological, needs, and, more kind, of, you, know, self-fulfillment, but nowhere, on, this, chart, do, we, see, mimetic desire, and, i'm, kind, of, curious, why, so continue, the, story sure, i, mean, memetic, desire, permeates every, single, block, on, that, chart, all, the way, from, the, bottom, so, when, we, start, at the, bottom, we're, looking, at, things, that are, heavily, instinctual, so, we, have, kind of, a, biological, physiological, basis, for things, like, thirst, and, hunger, and, warmth and, security, so, those, things, are, the bottom, of, the, pyramid, think, of, it, as

like, our, body, has things, like, built-in, mechanisms, built-in signals that, tell, us, what, we, need so, if, we're, dying, of, thirst, in, the desert our, body, just, has, built-in, mechanisms that, tell, us, we, see, water, we're, going, to drink, the, water, even, if, we're, alone right, it's, very, simple as, we, move, beyond, the, world, of, purely instinctual, responses, into, the, universe of, desires, think, about, lifestyles, and career, choices, and, abstract, things, like stocks, and, crypto, um, and, and, just, just

the, world, of, ideas, and, desires, we, don't have, the, instinctual, basis, anymore, we, we lack, that, so, like, how, do, we, choose, one object, of, desire, over, another gerard's finding, his, really, important, discovery is, that, we, find, them, outside, of ourselves, we, don't, have, the, built-in mechanism, so, we, have, to, look, externally to, find, the, signals, and, we, find, them, in the, form, of, other, people, or, groups, that model, desires, to, us, and, signal, to, us

what, is, worth, wanting, and, what, is, not worth, wanting, so, these, are, called, our models, of, desire, they, basically, generate and, shape, our, desires, for, us, this, is very, different, than, the, way, we, normally think, of, our, desires, we, think, that, i think, in, our, hyper-individualistic, world and, hyper-rationalistic, mindset, we, have this, idea, that, like, we, generate, our desires, on, our, own, or, we, want, something purely, based, on, our, objective, rational analysis, of, the, qualities, of, the, thing itself and, that's, denying, kind, of, the, social

process, that, we're, all, embedded, in, and the, way, that, we, look, to, other, people to, help, us, value, things, and, and, to understand, whether, or, not, they're desirable, now, when, it, comes, to, maslow's hierarchy, this, this, memetic, desire, has seeped, into, every, level, of, it, so, i, don't want, to, pretend, that, okay, there's certain, needs, and, then, once, we, fulfill the, needs, then, we, move, into, the, this world, of, desire, it's, not, like, that, i mean, look, at, today, water, itself it, you, know, we, typically, choose, the water, that, we, drink

largely, based, on, mimesis, it's, not, just like, there's, water, now, there's, 50 different, brands, of, water, all, marketing like, different, properties like, how, do, we, know, which, one, to, want, so like, even, the, things, that, maybe, used, to be, more, uh, let's, call, it, instinctually driven, are, no, longer, that, way, like mimesis, has, pervaded, every, single, part of, that, pyramid so, most, of, that, pyramid, are, not, needs, at all, i, mean, they, fall, more, into, this structure, of, desire, that, gerard, was

describing, and, you, know, that, if, you, look at, the, pyramid, it, would, seem, as, if, one could, move, up, the, pyramid, individually without, anybody, else, but, that's, not, the world, that, we, live, in, we, we, live, in, a world, surrounded, by, other, people modeling, desires, to, us, all, the, time, so, i think, that, pyramid, is, not, a, pyramid, at all, it's, basically, a, pandora's, box, after you, get, past, the, first, two, levels especially, you, can, just, lop, off, the, top and, we've, entered, the, universe, of desires, i, think, the, context, of, being, in a, 2000s, era, world, really, changes, up, the

role, that, maslow's, hierarchy, really offers, us, like, maybe, if, we, go, back, 5, 000 years, and, we, talk, about, like, do, you, have water, as, in, like do, you, have, access, to, a, stream, that, you can, drink, water, from, or, else, you, will die, and, then, also, if, you, talk, about clothes, and, shelters, like, oh, do, you, have like, the, height, of, an, animal, on, your back, and, also, you, found, a, cave, like great, like, you've, got, you've, knocked down, those, basic, things, off, of, off, of maslow's, hierarchy, in, 20, in, the, world, of 2021, like, most, of, these, things, are largely, taken, care, of, for, us, at, this point, and, so, now, now, to, what, you, say

it's, like, no, it's, not, about, having access, to, a, stream, it's, now, do, you, like voss, water, or, do, you, like, smart, water, or do, you, like, dasani, and, then, also carbonated, man, carbonate, all, the, way topo, chico, i'm, a, topo, guy and, but, then, also, with, clothes, on, our back, it's, no, longer, just, like, oh, i, found like, the, height, of, an, animal, to, keep, me warm, it's, like, oh, there's, a, fashion sense, that, i, particularly, go, for, and fashion, changes every, three, to, six, months, and, hairstyles

change, and, just, you, know, culture, changes and, as, a, and, really, what mimetic, desire, is, is, this, game, that, we all, play, is, like, oh, you, you're, picking that, so, i'm, gonna, pick, this, so, you're gonna, pick, that, so, i'm, gonna, pick, this and, all, of, a, sudden, we, have, fashion trends, and, hairstyle, trends, and different, which, is, what, culture ultimately, becomes, uh, luke, does, that vibe, with, you, it, does, vibe, with, me, i mean, i, heard, one, person, put, it, like, this for, the, first, time, in, human, history we're, no, longer, struggling, with, scarcity

or, having, to, cope, with, abundance that, that's, one, way, to, sort, of, abundance we're, having, to, cope, with, abundance, so we're, no, longer, struggling, to, survive and, struggling, over, scarcity, i, mean there, are, still, scarce, things, and memetic, desire, creates, scarcity, by, the way, but, for, the, most, part, you, know, we have, most, of, our, basic, needs, taken, care of, and, the, challenge, for, us, is, coping with, abundance, and, that's, where, mimetic desire really, goes, into, overdrive coping, with, abundance, i, love, that, line

and, that i, think, the, way, that, we, are, coping, with that, is, that, maybe, mentally, humans, are like, okay, we, have, all, the, 50, different types, of, water, but, what's, the, most desirable, water, what's, the, most desirable, fashion, sense, and, so, even though, we, are, in, this, land, of, abundance it, seems, like, mimetic, desire, is, actually trying, to, reintroduce, scarcity, back, into really, abundance because, that's, the, game, that's, the, game of, mimetic, desire i, think, that's, right, and, you, know there's, a, there's, a, thousand, different

altcoins, and, crypto, assets, to, choose from, it's, overwhelming, right, like, what's the, signal, through, the, noise and, memetic, desire, uh, seems, to, be playing, a, more, pervasive, and, a, more important, role, in, today's, world, than ever, before because, of, this, very, thing, you, know because, we, we, do, live, in, a, world, of abundance, it's, less, clear, what's desirable, and, what's, not, and, the objective, criteria, i, mean, there, are objective underpinnings, for

you, know, whether, things, are, beautiful whether, things, are, true, or, desirable, but we, all, know, from, having, spent, some, time like, in, the, investment, world, and, just, as human, beings um in, in, our, romantic, life, and, in, all, in, in politics, that, there, are, all, kinds, of other, things, going, on, that, influence, why people, want, things, and, mimesis, is, really the, hidden, force that, i, think, once, you, understand, what mimesis, is, and, how, it, works, you, start you, can't, unsee, it, you, start, seeing, it everywhere, around, you, especially, in, the

markets, yeah, absolutely, i, feel, like that's, so, true, you, do, start, to, see, it everywhere, and, i, want, to, just, make, sure that, this, point, is, underlined, this, this hidden, force, as, you, say, this, thing, that underlines, everything, with, with, the things, that, we, want, individually, and desire, individually, but, also, the, things that, we um, desire, collectively, are, not, our, own so, it, appears, this, way, it, appears, that, i like, this, certain, paint, color, on, my, wall because, i'm, the, sort, of, person, that likes, that, that, pink, color, it's, my

choice, or, i, drink, this, specific, water, or i, buy, the, specific, cryptocurrency what, you're, saying, what, mimetic, desire is, saying, the, theory, of, of, the, medics, is basically, like, no you, didn't, make, any, of, those, choices, the clothes, that, you're, wearing, the, vibe, the way, that, you're, talking, the, accent, that you, have, everything, about, you is, mimicking those, around, you, other, humans, we we're, not, individuals, in, this, world

we're, part, of, this society, this, collective, group, of, humans that, we, mimic, to, one, degree, or, another and, therefore, this, is, the, sobering, truth that, you're, bringing, to, light is our, choices, and, preferences, and, desires and, wants, aren't, really, our, own, this, is what, you're, kind, of, unveiling, this, is the, man, behind, the, curtain, i, just, want to, make, sure, that, that's, underlined, for folks, how, would, you, put, it, i, would, put it, like, this, that, um our, desires, are, not, individual, our desires, are, interdividual, and, one, of

gerard's, collaborators, coined, the, term interdividual, psychology and, he's, saying, we, can, really, only understand, psychology, um, at, the, end individual, level, like, not, just, as, every as, every, person, is, like, a, stand-alone mind, we, can, only, understand, psychology in, a, relational, context, right, to, bring other, people, into, it, so, like, if, a husband, goes, to, a, psychotherapist the, psychotherapist, can, really, only understand, his, psychology, if, he understands, the, relationship, with, the

wife, right, so, it's, where, it's interdividual, psychology, here's, one, way to, think, about, it what what, gravity, is, to, physics mimesis, or, memetic, desire, is, psychology that, means, that, it, is, a, this, relational force that, that, desire, is, sort, of, generated, in and, through, relationships, in, the, space between, people, not, like, ex, nihilo from, from, ourselves, and, that's, a, really

important, point, so, i, think, you, said, it very, well, that, a, desire, is, social, and desire, is, generated, and, takes, shape through, a, social, process now, one, of, the, first, questions, that, a lot, of, people, ask, me, is, like, i'll, frame it, in, crypto, terminology, blockchain terminology, okay, like, then, what's, the genesis, block, here, right, like like, is, it, is, it, turtles, all, the, way down, is, it, memetic, desire, all, the, way down, yeah jack, butcher, and, i, actually, put, out, an nft, called, memetic, desire, all, the, way

down, um, just, like, poking, fun, at, this concept so, i, guess, if, you're, a, theist, you, would say, that, the, genesis, block, of, desire, is god um, if, you're, not, a, fiest, then, the genesis, block could, come, through, some, stage, of evolution, right, um, you, know, 2001, a, space odyssey, like, sort, of, depicts, in, the beginning, of, that, like, there's, just, like innovation, and, and, so we, could, admit, that, like, yes, some, people can, do, things, that, are, then, imitated, or copied, um, but, it, seems, like, desires, are

kind, of, spread, and, passed, down, through the, ages, through, some, process, of, of imitation, their, derivative, you, can, even see, how, that, works, in, a, family, right like, that, the, desires, of, parents, very often, get, passed, down, to, the, children um, so, that's, you, know, it's, a, little, bit mysterious but, i, think, we, can, just, look, at, our, own experience, and, if, we, if, we, look, at, a, lot of, the, things, that, we've, wanted, if, we look, hard, enough, we, can, usually, find some, hidden, model, somebody, or, something that, gave, us, the, idea, or, planted, that