# 139 - The Cosmos Thesis with Sunny Aggarwal & Zaki Manian

*Author: David Hoffman*
*Published: Oct 7, 2022*
*Source: https://www.bankless.com/fr/early-access-the-cosmos-thesis-with*

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Sunny started the Blockchain at Berkeley, the largest student organization for crypto in the world, and also co-hosts the Epicenter podcast. Zaki is helping ship Cosmos’s IBC, is working on the validator ecosystem, and is also an advisor to the Electric Coin Company, the org behind Zcash, and is also a co-founder of Iqlusion.

On today’s episode, Sunny and Zaki share what the Cosmos Thesis is, how Cosmos is similar and different to Ethereum, and what Cosmos’s ATOM 2.0 unlocks for the ecosystem.

Zero to 60 in one episode. This is the Cosmos Thesis.

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### TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro

8:05 Zaki & Sunny

10:08 The Cosmosverse Conference

18:38 Cosmos’s Central Thesis

23:10 Metaphors & Ethereum vs. Cosmos

29:18 Trade-offs 

36:13 Monetary Premium Thoughts

40:18 Osmosis & Power Laws

48:24 Stablecoins on Cosmos

54:13 L2s vs. Cosmos

1:09:11 Cosmos vs. Polkadot 

1:14:52 MEV Problems & Solutions 

1:23:24 ATOM 2.0

1:32:16 Mesh & Interchain Security 

1:41:50 Does ATOM Break Top 10 Tokens? 

1:43:43 Will ATOM Flip ETH? 

1:44:50 The Future of Cosmos

1:49:03 How to Explore Cosmos

1:50:44 Closing & Disclosures

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### RESOURCES
Sunny Aggarwal

https://twitter.com/sunnya97

Zaki Manian

https://twitter.com/zmanian

ATOM 2.0

https://forum.cosmos.network/t/proposal-draft-a-new-vision-for-cosmos-hub/7328 

The Inevitability of UNIchain

https://medium.com/nascent-xyz/the-inevitability-of-unichain-bc600c92c5c4